Speaking to the Irish Times Labour leader Eamon Gilmore says:
I want to be absolutely clear. I don’t want there to be any ambiguity about this. Fianna Fail must be put out of government at the next election.
Yes, yes, yes. I like the fact that, unlike the power hungry spivs in the Green Party, he has ruled out any coalition with FF. And unlike FG he hasn’t solicited donations from developers in NAMA.
Not only should FF be put out of government, if there’s a shred of dignity left about the Irish people, they should be decimated as a party. The damage they have done to Ireland is incalculable. To the people, our infrastructure, our society, our public services, everything. The worst, sadly, is yet to come.
People need to stop thinking about political parties the way they do about their favourite football team. You cannot be a lifelong FF supporter and blindly vote for them because that’s just what you’ve always done. I know there are many like that but hopefully enough people can see what they’ve done and punish them accordingly. Hoping to change the dyed-in-the-wool gombeen set is probably being way too optimistic but there are so many whose family loyalties will have been with FF down through the years who are now unemployed, broke, in negative equity, struggling to get by, depressed, disillusioned and bankrupt.
There are families divided by emigration, broken by circumstances beyond their control and ultimately caused by this government. The continued protection of those who got us into this mess is the greatest scandal of our times. Those who have perpetrated it, those who have propped it up – and I’m looking you Gormley, Ryan and Co – those whose legacy will be the financial and societal destruction of an entire nation must be made to pay.
Beyond going into Leinster House with automatic weapons the only way we can do this is with our votes. This next election can’t come soon enough.
Meh. Get rid of FF and FG. Same bullshit parties: FF just happen to be better at selling themselves, so happen to be in power.
Worryingly, though, the last time Labour were in government, they said exactly the same thing.
On the 5th of November, 1992 (the last day the Dáil sat before the ’92 election), Dick Spring said of FF “it must surely be considered amazing that any party would consider coalescing with them” . He then set out the party’s position “as clearly and as unequivocally as I can, in relation to the issue of Government formation” which was to say that “I believe one political party in this House have gone so far down the road of blindness to standards, and of blindness to the people they are supposed to represent that it is impossible to see how anyone could support them in the future without seeing them first undergo the most radical transformation. We will not support any Government with the track record of this one.”
Literally the very next day the Dáíl sat, he was sitting with Fianna Fáil.
Sometimes the post election maths dictate what you have to do. It’s a bad, bad idea to rule out one party, because there’s a good chance you’ll have to disappoint.
Good post. But Fine Gael aren’t much better. They’re not the same, and certainly not worse, which is probably the best we can hope for from them, and I’d certainly vote for them over Fianna Fail.
couldnt agree more twenty i voted labour in the last two elections mostly because im working class and they should be the champions of the working class that is why they exist in the first place, wheather they are or not is yet to be determined. id like to see them in power but i really dont know what they would do with it
Pidge – I don’t recall the circumstances being anywhere near the same in 1992, there certainly wasn’t the same anger. Anyway, I don’t think any party could consider teaming up with FF now. Look at how that’s worked out for your lot.
Peter – I don’t think I could vote FG either, to be honest. Not first choice anyway.
Bosco – the big difficulty is that whoever comes in is going to have an absolute cunt of a job and will have to make unpopular decisions.
I could never and have never voted FG or FF. Labour yes and some Independents that strike me as maybe having their head screwed on. All the rest completely insufferable and guaranteed to fuck you over in the name of the party no matter what line they take publicly.
I agree, I have never voted Labour in my life, but I intend to this time around. FG are FF-Lite
Now all Gilmore has to do is to rule out any agreement with Sinn Fein and not only will I vote for them, I’ll campaign for them too.
Maybe we should all contact Labour, let them know that there is a huge swathe of potential centre-ish votes outs there if they show the backbone the country needs.
That’s it Twenty….Unfortunately if Labour get in the decisions they’ll have to make will be so tough and unpopular with the masses that the retarded general public will be sent running back into the arms of their shafters and more than likely in no time at all FF’ll be lapping it up again.
We have to be optimistic though.
1st, make sure you’re registered.
2nd, in the absence of other candidates find out if there’s any local independent alternative to FF/FG who hasn’t propped up the current shower and has a vision beyond the local pothole or any other back-yard issue for which his/her vote can be bought on the back of a FF promise.
3rd, campaign for the candidate of your choice, after telling them you know where they live.
4th, VOTE.
I’ll support Gilmore but he has to stop saying Gubbermint.
Justice for the Forgotten – to be forgotten.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0721/justice.html
Flabbergasted how some are still willing to back them and not just the oul ones. Younger folk still think they offer more power in money making terms.( well for FF they certainly do)
Then again the whole of the USA was led to accept a ruthless gang coup in 2000 and 2004.
Hitler also tricked a smart nation into following his bullshit.
What hope for our dear little banana republic when we are constantly fucked, accountability- free no less, by a bunch of incompetent apes?
Doesn’t matter who gets in power, they are all cunts and behave like cunts in order to carry out their mini cuntatorship. Cunts
It’s the Irish political system which is broken. FF – unutterable cunts, yes, but the system just doesn’t work anymore.
*Vincent brown audible sigh*
Government is poison chalice now and it’s sad that Labour will crash and burn after their term in Government, having had no choice but to govern with austerity. They may implode such will be the philosophical trauma of being in power with no finances to make changes.
Then a return of the untterables.
There are alternatives, aren’t there? That version of the list system where experts do the legislating and governing on behalf of the democratically elected government. Surely there is a better way.
But yes, let’s support Labour now – everyone vote for Gilmore.
They’re just out and out criminals as far as I can see. They’ve done untold damage to both the infrastructure and the idea of democracy in this country. Prime example- Mary Harney has, by her incompetence and arrogance, actually been responsible for the deaths of innocent people who did no more than get sick and depend on her HSE for their treatment. Both my brother and his wife work for the HSE, and while I’m glad they’re keeping the wolf off their porch when so many aren’t, I know first hand the degree of bureaucracy and nepotism that exists even in the one hospital they’re employed at is mind boggling. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I know has had the wool ripped from their eyes regarding the FF’rs – arrogant corrupt scumbags, without exception. I’m an atheist, but I’m fucking praying for the day one of their canvassers shows up at my front door. You might even hear about it on the news. On a lighter note, I’m also praying fervently to the virgin mary for joe coleman to cross the wrong group of travellers and be torn limb from limb on the steps of a shrine somewhere in the arsehole of nowhere. A man’s gotta dream….
Does anyone think that they will call an early election or is that too much to hope for?
After the revelations about Cowen being warned that the bail out was not the best idea and still doing it etc.. although the neck on the cunts they’ll probably try and change the constitution to delay the next election saying that it would be best for the country if their sterling work building back up the economy was not interrupted by a General election..
fill,
they nearly would. Scratch that, they would if there was any chance they could change the Constitution when we weren’t looking.
I have a lot of relatives who voted FF last time and will next time too. Logic:
1. Sure they’re all bastards anyway.
2. FG are the same shower of cunts, only with Enda. So vote FF.
3. Labour are great for the PAYE worker, they shaft self employed people and treat them as the landed gentry when they earn far less than PAYE workers. No one will vote to be shafted even worser than they already are.
4. The Shinners will always be provos. FACT.
Ergo: Better the Devil you know.
There are a LOT of people who feel the same.
:(
so you’re saying we’re fucked then…
“Taxi!,Airport please..”
As a nation, we are like an abused child. We carry out learned experiences throughout our lives, seemingly unable to change the pattern. And the key problem here is pattern. We’ve come to think there is no other way. And those who were the abusers know this and profit from it and teach their children to do the same.
not in the least bit surprised, but moody’s have downgraded country’s credit status yet again. main (stated) reason for nama – save banks to keep investor confidence high and prevent drop in credit rating. standard and poor’s and moody’s have continuously downgraded credit rating since. real anti-midas touch.
would be up for putting cash towards a fund for a national advertising campaign just before elections, reminding everyone of what government responsible for. nothing slanderous or libellous, just plain facts (although would be nice to finish with the word cunts). public has a short memory, a fact that politiocians bet on, and think a quick synopsis of the last few years would be a good reminder of exactly what people are voting for.
I have never understood why people vote for political parties based on tradition or because they’re a ‘supporter’. You vote for the party that you think will do the best or at least not do the worst – whatever way you want to look at it.
There are so many people who don’t think about who to vote for because if the family is FF or FG they just vote that. That’s worse than not voting. The whole idea is that your vote is the result of a considered opinion.
Can anyone explain to me what that twat Dempsey was on about the other day at the McGill school re electoral reform? What’s the fucking plan this time?
@Porridge. I’d contribute to such a fund. But I’m not sure how effective it would be – there are far too many numpties in this country that will still vote for FF, and it’s absolutely mind-boggling.
Like has been touched on here, FG are absolutely no better. But Labour? Still a hell of a lot of question marks for me. Their politicians do seem to be more principled, and I like Gilmore. But will they have the cojones to wield the knife when it comes to the likes of the necessary public sector cuts? Or are they going to protect them at the expense of everybody else? I’d have my doubts. They are the best of a bad bunch, but is that good enough? Not for me it isn’t
We have a problem in this country in that the politicians are not statesmen. There is no Grand Plan, other than being re-elected to the gravy train. Any infrastructure is squabbled over on the basis of constituencies and any spending is claimed by local TDs as “what I’ve done for my local people”. If a traffic sign or speed bump goes up in my area I get nineteen letters (which I’m paying for) claiming that each of the letter-senders were personally responsible for this vital piece of infrastructure. Which in turn lasts for about six months because it’s made cheaply by a buddy/nephew/etc of one of the geniuses who wrote the letters. WE NEED JOINED UP THINKING BY RESPONSIBLE ADULTS. Not the cute-hoor,parish pump, getting one over on the other party shite that passes for politics in this country. And when will someone be made responsible for something? Mary Harney is not responsible for the HSE. The Financial Regulator
is not responsible for the banks. Brian Cowen is in a haze of denial about the state of the country, but he is not responsible either. It must be my fault so.
like you have said yourself
it is like swapping one pound for another pound
The political system in this country is rotten to the core
13 years of bribes, corruption, cronyism and God knows what else
Even if Labour is voted in
next election it’s going to take at least a decade to sort this mess out
I’m not too sure that FF won’t be kicked out next time. Whatever else about them they’re shit hot on the ground. I recently worked on a project that needed Oireachtas input. We contacted all the parties in the constituency but FF were the only ones to reply & more importantly get results. I know this is what’s wrong with the system, local priorities over national but I don’t see the system changing soon. FF are very good at what they do best, getting elected & claiming expenses.
So as much as it pains me to think of another 5 years of this shite it won’t surprise me. As Harney said inbetween sides of beef, we’ve only a 4 month memory.
Depressing I know….
It’s like Animal Farm. That film was what got me interested in politics and economics.
Oh and my ranting Father.
Or that book I should say. Ahem.
Irish Politics is only eighty odd years old. Unfortunately it’ll take a few more generations to stamp out the old Civil War ideals and traditional voting for good.
ah the great irish publix.
”i’ll vote ff ‘cos they no what the’re doing and vote the greens to keep an eye on them”
was the pick of the wisdom at the last election.
WOAH! Hold your horses I say, alluding to the quad bike
Can someone tell me what policy, if any, Labour have?
Labour are fantastic at saying that they’re not FF and not FG but ask them about policy and they say nothing. They are, in my opinion, WORSE than FF.
e.g.
The Croke Park agreement. A deal between the government and unions. The biggest deal this country ever did between goverment and unions. What did Gilmore have to about it? The leader of the Labour Party, the man who should have a thesis written on the deal?
That is the sound of tumbleweed blowing down the streets, Gilmore said zero. He’s happy to take the disaffected FF vote from public service workers but won’t speak about it. FF are haemorraging support to Labour. labour are the new FF.
fuck Labour, spineless cunts.
Gormley is just feathering his nest saying that nonsense.
He will cut a deal with FF again just as quick if meant he stayed in power.
we reap what we sow!
@Dave – “WE NEED JOINED UP THINKING BY RESPONSIBLE ADULTS”. That’s exactly what we need, but you’re not going to get it in this country. We don’t do joined up thinking, and very few of us do adulthood, or personal responsibility for that matter. We still have a huge proportion of people that still believe in the adult version of the tooth-fairy FFS.
@killemall. If there is an election and FF are still in power after it, then the only option left to any sane person is to make arrangements to get the fuck out of the country.
I sowed Mangos last year and nothing came up.
we could vote libertas’ haha it would be like living under the taliban’ talk about cunts
The vast majority of people are not in political parties. The few who are always vote without fail and get their mates out to vote too. That’s why FF always get in again. The people who don’t vote need to start voting. As Twenty said, other than a violent coup, the only way to change the system is the ballot box.
At least Labour might be fairer in the way they manage money and their focus will be social justice not jobs for the boys.
well put HM we should all vote labour
Just remember if you vote for Labour or Sinn Fein that Socialism is a great idea until you run out of other peoples’ money. (Though to be fair FF could give master-classes in squandering other peoples’ money)
Twenty, any chance you’d lead a alternative movement to oust these fuckers from power? I’d say you’d be able to muster up a decent following. You could get to call yourself “El Presidente” afterwards, and like Che Guevara your likeness will adorn fashionable tee-shirts in generations to come. What do ya think?
labour the best of a bad lot?
I always vote for an Independent who ends up getting about 476 votes. I could probably do that myself if I did the oul FF graverobbing dictate.
You can’t put a few Irishmen in charge of a project or a bit of land. They always end up backstabbing each other, thinking they have more right to a certain area and basically fucking it up big style.
Some industrial size propellers to float this rain infested swamp to Cuba/North Korea/Israel or somewhere else less corrupt would be delightful. Ship Ahoy!
a vote for labour is a vote for FF because, believe it or not, if the numbers add up, and they look like they will, Labour and FF will be the next government, in that order.
HM, don’t vote Labour they’ve nothing to sell; they are using the tactic of saying nothing to gain power, the tactic of “better to be considered a fool by saying nothing than be proved to be a fool and speak your mind”
Labour have nothing to offer this country, just ask them about policy and listen to their silence
@Itchy
I completely agree. Labour are chicken shites and their strategy is to say nothing and let the other parties self destuct. Worse still it’s working, which just reinforces the fact that the Irish electorate are thick, stupid shites.
I reckon the IMF are the only way we’re ever going to sort the kip out.
@Twenty
I reckon your webserver is a 286 from 1990, with one meg of RAM. Am I right?
would labour have bailed Anglo ?
Er, but he didn’t rule out coalition with FF. He was careful not to. Otherwise he would have said “This party will not enter into a coalition with FF.” But he didn’t. Instead he said the more ambiguous “Fianna Fail must be put out of government at the next election.”
I reckon your webserver is a 286 from 1990, with one meg of RAM. Am I right?
It’s not that hi-spec, steady on
@Sniffle
I reckon they’d have done whatever – and I mean WHATEVER – the unions told them too. So I couldn’t tell ya, ’cause I never know where the unions are coming from.
@Twenty
Chortle.
That’s my word for the day. Just discovered today that it’s a mixture of chuckle and snort. So there ya fuckin’ go!
Itchy, I hear you on the Labour thing. But FF and FG are exactly the same thing. They’ve been playing that game for years to stop us voting outside of the status quo. And they both have Vatican cock up their asses.
I’m still wary of Sinn Féin although they are effective with local issues and stamping out petty crime in their own special way.
That leaves Labour in my mind.
Itchy is bang on about Labour. Too close to the unions and public sector, too vague on anything approaching actual policy. They are just keeping their heads down and kept schtum when the big developments were happening.
And I don’t buy into the “best of a bad bunch” argument either. It’s a shit reason to vote for anybody. If you wouldn’t vote for them normally, they are not deserving of a vote just because the rest of them are complete shit and these are all that is left. That might suffice in “normal” times, but these are not normal times.
Besides, voting for Labour means that you’ll have to listen to Joan Burton more. If that doesn’t influence your vote, nothing will.
We need a “None of the above” category on the ballot paper in this country, we really do.
for all labour’s faults they are still a lot more palatable than either of the two major parties.
the greens are beneath contempt and sinn fein are damaged goods.
our options as voters are really piss-poor.
Our options are dismal, no doubt. But if a seriously large portion of the vote in the next general election went to independants, it’d send a serious signal and might (just might) bring about a change. It’s that, the IMF or emmigration.
Twenty,
Snap almost. Not as eloquent as you yourself but you’ll get the idea http://www.omsireland.wordpress.com
See post of yesterday July 21