The Celtic Tiger, rancid and all as that moniker is now, did many things, good and bad. Leaving aside the financial damage, one of the worst things about it was that it presented a new face of Ireland: educated, aware, mature and dare I say it, one that was modern and seemingly at odds with that of different generations.
People appeared liberated in many respects. Sexually, artistically, literally. Freed from the choke chain of old Ireland, of religion, servile behaviour towards the ‘black and blue uniforms’. And when it combined with the growth of the internet, a medium through which people could express opinion more freely, share their thoughts with others more easily and gain an audience along with it, it was like we had grown up. Yet it was just a facade.
The continued battle from what appears to be a small minorty against the wrongdoings of the church makes a lie of that. As we birds of a feather flock to condemn them and their despicable actions, cardinal Brady gets a round of applause as he says a mass in Armagh. People are applauding a man who covered up child abuse. The institutionalisation of the Irish people by the church is so deeply ingrained in our society that everyday people think it’s normal to protect the church before you protect children from rape and buggery.
Those of us who think the way we think express outrage and dismay at what has happened, and at the lack of action taken, but doesn’t this suggest that we are in the minority? People go to mass, put money in plates, and continue to fund an organisation so corrupt that if you fictionalised it, it would be rejected on the grounds of being unrealistic. ‘Who would endure such a thing?’, the editor might say.
And if you need another example of how the liberal, modern Ireland we thought we were living in does not exist, then look at this story in today’s Irish Times. Doctor Philip Nitschke is an Australian who deals in the area of assisted suicide. An emotional issue for people, I’ll certainly agree, but in 2010 in Ireland he struggled to find somewhere to simply hold a meeting to discuss the issue. He said ‘When we came to Ireland we understood that there may be some opposition, but we did not expect such a well-orchestrated campaign of censorship. It is simply unacceptable in a civilised,western country such as Ireland to have one section of the population threaten everyone else in this way’.
And whatever you think about the subject matter, he’s right. My own thoughts on it are here, I think it’s ridiculous the way we allow people to suffer. If those of sound mind wish to die before their pain, and that of the relatives and friends who must watch the person they love endure it, becomes too great then I don’t see the problem at all.
When it comes to issues like assisted suicide there is always loud opposition from those who declare ‘it’s just not right’, perhaps quoting an irrelevant book written hundreds of years ago which we still allow to dictate the way we think and act in a modern society. Look at how vocal those who oppose civil partnership are. What are they against? They’re against people being happy, people loving each other, people enjoying the one life they’re given. How twisted and antiquated is that?
Let’s face it, these people would find bigger fault with a priest who decided he’d rather leave the church and marry a woman than a priest who abused his power to fuck children. And on the flip side, those of us who find issues like this important and necessary, if we are to grow up as a society, remain far quieter for the most part.
This is 2010 and hotels and meeting rooms are bowing to pressure from religious nuts to prevent a fucking meeting taking place. Not a same sex orgy, not the burning of bibles, a meeting about an issue which will, like it or not, affect every family in this country. Even those whackos. Perhaps they can take some solace in their belief that the pain a cancer patient suffers will be worth it as they ascend into heaven to sit at the right hand side of their god.
For those of us who live in the real world we know there is no such thing. We know that the pain is only pain, the suffering only suffering and there is no reward at the end of it but death.
We live in a deeply, fundamentally conservative country, and it doesn’t look as if anything will ever change without a fight. We allow ourselves to be dictated to by religion, even still. It is an outrage that in 2010 Dr Philip Nitschke encoutered such resistance to his meeting, the venues that gave in to the religious nutters ought to be ashamed of themselves, but it just goes to show you that the Ireland we like to think we live in isn’t that Ireland at all.
In other words, everyone is a cunt.
The reality is that Ireland was a predominantly rural society up until relatively recently and those sorts of island rural societies tend to be conservative.
But there’s conservative and there’s mad, as anyone can see when they look at places like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
But I’m convinced as well that there is a pretty strong majority of people who woudl prefer to move away from constant ‘moral’ battles taking place in the life of the nation via politics- I think government and administration should be about jobs, keeping the street lights on and managing resources.
The good thing is that the social nightmares we’ve been having should finally promote the idea a bit wider that personal morality is just that- personal. No one has a right to say how their nieghbour three doors down should live beyond the harm principle.
What business is it of Mrs Catholic at No 10 to tell the family at no 12 that they can’t consider assisted suicide if they have an elederly relative of sound mind who wants to go with dignity?
Thats the killer for me- the bizarre idea that some religious freak’s personal views should be encapsulated in law. Its a nightmare and a hostage to fortune which costs the state millions, polarises society over nothing and just makes lawyers rich dancing on the head of legalistic pins.
Complete separation of church and state via the Constitution is the only thing that will get it trhough to the superstitious muppets among us that administration is about resources, not devils and bibles.
“one of the worst things about it was that it presented a new face…”
Do you mean to say “one of the best” instead of “one of the worst”?
I didnt see the article with this doctor, but did he just say he had a hard time or did he really outline a campaign of censorship? I cant believe that any hotels operating in Dublin today would turn down an offer of business…
The protection of life is a very important thing in any legal system… and it doesnt matter which religion is protecting it…
We live in a country where even the secular modern people you’re talking about have their kids baptised. Most argue it’s so they can get into a local school or avoid bullying, but the truth is Catholicism is still the default in Ireland. And we capitulate to it as our moral authority, even when we don’t believe in it.
Why should life need protecting? If the person who is the holder of that life is shown to be of sound mind and capable of reaching a decision whose business is it to make him or her live on in extreme pain?
Because thats what the ‘moral’ stance is here and its only an attempt to disguise it by expressing concern about the sanctity of life under the law.
Its an extension of that old religious nuttiness thread that runs from ‘god’ being the only one in charge of life. From the church’s tooth and nail fighting of any medical advance over 1000′s of years which would interfere with ‘gods plan’ to the whole ‘mustn’t interfere with the possibility of another catholic babby’ policy right through to the downgrading of children from outside marriage as ‘lesser’ than any other kids you have that kind of madness instilled in law.
Seperate religion and state and you have a coherent framework to organise society properly to guard against anyone seeking to misuse assisted suicide legislation. With the mishmash of law and morality in the Irish political system its just another jolly for lawyers and PR people.
We are deeply conditioned as a nation. The guilt and obedience is ingrained in us, even if we never attend a Mass. The objection to assisted suicide is about not allowing the lay person have power over their destiny or a direct relationship with their God if they are believers.
The Vatican are the middle men who re-interpret gospel to justify their existence and to maintain their power over ordinary people. And because they have such influence over government and civil institutions, the educated class also tow the line in order to succeed in their careers.
The danger of attacking the Church is that you’ll be accused of social engineering which is what Hitler engaged in. So a careful phased separation of church and state overseen by an independent European body would be a transparent controlled way to do it.
The schools are the first place to start and we need our Nama money back to do that.
I fuckin hate Middle Men..
why is everybody bringing religion into this?
This is a legal issue
The issue is “assisted” suicide.
It is an area that has to be very carefully handled.
People in Ireland today are having electric shock treatment carried out on them against their will, because they are deemed unfit to decide for themsleves..
I cant decide if this is relevant or not..
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-quits-cork-home-over-poltergeist-2104655.html
But im heading to Cork anyway coz the Shamen were brilliant!
I agree Sam, but it isn’t beyond the wit of Irish people to agree on a system which allows people to make the decision.
We easily enough decide whethere someone is of sound enough mind to make a will and have systems for that.
I understand the objection that a family might pressurise an old person to get access to an inheritance for example but then whats to stop that family pulling the pillow on an old person anyway whether there is assisted suicide or not?
All we need are adequate safeguards for ensuring the person concerned is making their own decision and thats all we should need.
Litseh tl twenty. Tetweny knows, he ungdysduands
Sam, it is a legal issue but of as usual those on their high horses are moralising on our behalf.
The very same people who wouldn’t want their daughter to marry a black man, you know, those tolerant nice middle class people with their tidy lawns.
I’m with Chritsy on this one..
Its not black and white twenty and religion being bullshit should not be a reason alone to legalise assisted” suicide The real danger ..and it is real is that sick people will be convinced that they are a burden and should just pop off because it will be better for every one concerned
You would do well to keep religion out of this debate it will cloud the issue
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/when-erin-chose-to-die/story-e6frg8h6-1111116885923
btw contrary to your last comment about me I am not a cunt
To rake a more positive view for once Ireland does have some advantages over other countries but we hamstring ourselves sometimes.
Its a small country, not overcrowded, with a population of about 4million. We don’t have a huge defence budget as we don’t have any military enemies to speak of.
We should be able to use the advantage of our relatively small country to be sensible in our legal systems and just administer resources without thievery.
There’s no reason in the world why every penny spent by government and local authorities should not immediately be available to view on a website with an explanation of what its for.
Our legal system should be cleansed of ‘moralism’ and should only contain rules based on the principle of harm.
The saving of billions fighting pointless religious arguments for referenda would stop if the Constitution dealt only with common sense relations between government and the citizen- no need there for churches to get involved.
We could be very radical and I know this is against the nature of many in Ireland but i think we’ve tried the theocracy for long enough and the downsides to that are obvious to everybody.
Here’s hoping for better days.
Taya:That is a tragice story alright,but the emotive alunguage of the piece leads me to believe that the newspaper has an agenda.
I belive that,that woman would have attempted suicide anyway,and that just because she read Killing Me Softly,she thought that that may have been an easier way out..
But there are many,many more people that Die painfully over months and years that would rather not put themselves or their families through that agony..there should be a solution available for those people.
I’m not the one who brought religion into ‘assisted suicide’. I agree it’s 100% a legal issue but when the zealots get involved and prevent even discussing it then you have to look at it in that context.
“Complete separation of church and state via the Constitution is the only thing that will get it trhough to the superstitious muppets among us that administration is about resources, not devils and bibles.”
Interesting lesson from a bit of history elsewhere…I started reading For Whom The Bell Tolls and became interested in the history of the Spanish Civil War which I never fully understood. Here’s an interesting snippet from Wikipedia…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
“The constitution provided for universal suffrage and generally accorded thorough civil liberties and representation, a major exception being Catholic rights.[12] The Constitution proclaimed religious freedom and a complete separation of Church and State, but in actuality provided for governmental interference in church matters. Namely, it excluded the Church from education (prohibited teaching by religious orders, even in private schools), restricted Church property rights and investments, provided for confiscation of and prohibitions on ownership of Church property, and banned the Society of Jesus.[13][14] The revolution of 1931 that established the Second Republic brought to power an anticlerical government.[15]”
Unfortunately it failed and there were many different angles but I find it interesting nonetheless in light of today’s current situation…
It failed miserably.
If you are going to have a democratic republic then you simply can’t have one vested interest given exceptions and exemptions under the law.
Spain is a good example of a country that has had similar social problems to ourselves but they are now taking a leaf out of France’s book and cleaning their administrative systems of religious influences, from schools and religious iconography being removed from public buildings and so on.
The French are cleverer than they have been given credit for in the way they handle religious loons, ie ‘bugger off’.
Top post Twenty.
“Litseh tl twenty. Tetweny knows, he ungdysduands”
Are you OK Christy?
assisted suicide going on in hospitals for years
That’s true actually.
My school was non-denominational which meant all religions were welcome at mass.
Kewl…the only way forward is…erm…forward!
OTD:It has alright,there are some genuinely caring people out there..
“assisted suicide going on in hospitals for years”
Yep. Been there. A question was asked by the doctors and answered by our family.
Done.
Suecide – Murder of a girl named Sue.
Yep. Been there. A question was asked by the doctors and answered by our family.
Same here. We weren’t asked though. It just happened.
been there also. asked the question.
so whats the difference?
I’d love to know.
Voltaire once said ‘I disapprove of what you say, but I would die for your right to say it’. If the Church has managed to censor a debate about a pressing issue which they find distasteful, we have once again failed as a society.
been there also. asked the question.
Same here. We weren’t asked though. It just happened.
Yep. Been there. A question was asked by the doctors and answered by our family.
Done.
I know it’s a difficult subject but can any of you elaborate?
Morphine perhaps?
My school was non-denominational which meant all religions were welcome at mass.
Just saw this HM..heh.. very progressive.
I remember a kid started in our school,he was abroad with his parents in Jordan for years and they were Jewish..
The Brother in charge talked about him like was handicapped before he started..In a ,”You must Pity the Hell-bound Faith Cripple” kind of way..
The cops haven’t released Fitzpatrick from Bray yet. Must be a plan to fuck up the arrest so he gets off scot free.
“My school was non-denominational which meant all religions were welcome at mass.”
Ha ha, what “mass” is this, now? Catholic Mass? How can it be non-denominational?
The Child abuse side of things is being dealt with, The Pope has written a letter, so thats sorted then, time to drop the subject.
As for Dr Death, I don’t particularly agree with assisted death, particularly mine, but if other people want to rent a room and discuss it then fair enough. We allow Sinn Fein rent rooms to hold meetings & those cunts have murdered hundreds.
Yeah,I mean we let the deluded congragate in rooms every week to worship an invisible space overlord that created EVERYTHING in one day,during which a celibate Man in a dress waves his hand infront of some buckfast and and cream cracker that magicall turns in to the Invisible Space Overlords Murdered son’s Body,then they eat it.. oh..
*EVERYTHING in one week obviously..D’oh,coz creating EVERYTHING in one day would be impossible,unless he created cocaine first..
the pope has written a letter and
I know it’s a difficult subject but can any of you elaborate?
Morphine perhaps?
My mam – end stage cancer, in a morphine induced coma. The nurses came in, administered some more, and she died a few minutes later. It was never said but it was clear that they gave her a dose that would have resulted the way it did.
There is no need to die in pain anymore. The WHO issued guidelines which basically say that no patient should suffer serious pain with the kind of drugs which are available now. Pain management is very advanced as long as the government doesn’t cut back on the cost of it. And in Ireland, that does happen. I overheard a conversation when I was in hospital a couple of years ago between a doctor and a HSE suit.
Likewise with the father.
Don’t moralise until you watch someone close to you die in agony from cancer.
Sadly it’s just about impossible these days as the Church has loads of xombies willing to grass up any medic willing to do the right thing.
Suffering brings people closer to God is one of the reasons these fuckers object.
Pain relief may stop ‘good death’
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0203/breaking47.htm
I saw John Snow interview the australian doctor on Channel 4 News with logical and pertinent questions; a tough but fair interview. Then I saw Miriam O’Callaghan interview him feigning outrage, as usual. RTE has a lot to answer for; kow-towing cunts.
As for somebody above mentioning the fact that BuswellsHotel turned away business; the shocking part is that no other hotel took up the running.
This people of this country are a fucking sick joke.
p.s. it’smore than a week now and STILL no statement from the government on Brady affair
dis, dat, y’ know what i mean- typo city above
When I’m 90, I want a Russian nineteen year old blonde girl to assist me in my ‘suicide’.
or shot by a jealous husband
‘assisted suicide going on in hospitals for years’
That the medical establishment seem to consider it their right to choose the point of a patients demise is akin to the churchs horrors at their worst. It’s well known, but never discussed, at least not openly or honestly. Which prompts one to consider the terminology of ‘assisted suicide’ in itself, and on those terms. If it’s the surreptitious decision of a doctor who believes there’s no hope for anything but suffering for the patient, and then terminates the life, isn’t that closer to a killing than actual suicide of personal choice?
Personal experience also demonstrated the downside of such thinking: I witnessed the medical establishment draw out the suffering of my Fathers cancer long after we should have been allowed to help him to end it. But they made that decision for us, to my great anger, in a surreptitious and business-like way. The value placed on his life appeared to have more to do with pharmaceutical sales, consultation fees and wages for the doctors than anything remotely approaching dignity in death.
yup…perfect post
its five o clock some place in the world time for stout
The big problem, as has been mentionedhere.I s the total inability to engage in a logical compassionate manner.
I’m sorry about your mam’s suffering, Twenty. Cancer’s a terrible, terrible thing and devastating to witness in a loved one.
What has the church to offer then? A sip of Costco wine, a gobbet of dough and lie upon lie with a steady, unblinking gaze.
Ireland, you need an uprising against the Catholic Church. Institutionally, normatively, socially, morally and as important as anything, psychologically. It pains me and many to see how that brilliantly wicked lot have held you in thrall with lies, bullying, threats and guilt. Time to throw off the yoke.
That’s the thing though, Sam. Compared to some stories you hear hers was very well managed but I have no doubt they took the ‘executive decision’ themselves.
This is an interesting read
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/psinger55/English
Just to prove my point about Miriam O’Callaghan doing a Joe Duffy impression. i.e an opening statement that is both factually incorrect followed by a broad sweeping bullshit opinion which she stated to be a fact. And no apology at the end of the show.
This is the very first thing she states so she has planted it in the minds of the viewers as facts.
Miriam O’Callaghan – “Doctor, you are here in this country advocating something that is illegal and for the vast majority of people is abhorrent”
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1068944
2 things – suicide is not illegal and the “vast majority” statement is backed up by?
How the fuck can she be taken seriously?
Too much internet today for me. My eyes, my brain!
the slippery slope argument maggot; baseless. along with the fucking nonsense spouted about relatives convincing other relatives to take their own life. Scare-mongering bullshit which can’t even be debated openly in a hotel in the middle of dublin city. 21st century ireland is a fucking shithole full of useless cunts. Cue Mary Harney diatribe but I feel like I’m hogging the room here.
I’m off to hang out in the lobby of Buswells dressed as a big yellow chicken with a freedom of speech placard. Buswells owned by Sean Quinn?
Holemaster Says:
March 19th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Too much internet today for me. My eyes, my brain!
Serves you right. That’s what happens when you’ve got a fucking “app for that”. Go post from the bidet HM. Go on.
bah.
the slippery slope argument maggot; baseless.
I support assisted suicide Itchy but I think we have to remember that there will be times when a death will be convenient for others.
So – can we trust the relatives to always make the decision in the interests of the ill person ? No.
Can we trust the medical profession ? You must be mad if you say yes – think Tuskegee.
Yes you can trust a specific relative. That’s the point. If you don’t have a relative to trust what the fuck have you been doing with your life. Everyone has a close relative they can trust. With regards to doctors you can do nothing but trust in a doctor. There’s no choice there. I’d like Keith Richards as a doctor
Right – and when Relative X inherits ?
As for trusting Doctors – the people of Tuskegee trusted them and look where that went.
I won’t hear a bad word said about Miriam O’Callaghan. I won’t, i fucking won’t i tell ya!
thank fucking christ it’s friday.
She is one hot MILF ( is that the right acronym peadar ? )
That David Quinn CUNT is on Radio 1 at the moment.
thats the one, but hands off maggot, you’re not soiling her on me
Iona Institute – crappy blog.
Dibs sloppy seconds peadar.
It would take you a week to ride Miriam O’Callaghan.
What, even two-push-peadar ?
I’d say she’d lift a calf out of a ditch no bother.
maggot Says:
March 19th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Right – and when Relative X inherits ?
As for trusting Doctors – the people of Tuskegee trusted them and look where that went.
The first part – I don’t know what you mean. You’re dead; who gives a fuck where/when relative x inherits he/she inherits etc If you don’t think you can trust a specific relative that’s your problem. When relative x inherits I expect them to do I as I instruct. It’ll involve a party with The Jesus Lizard and champagne cocktails for a start.
I meet my gp in my one of my local haunts and he’s cool.
Miriam O’Callaghan is useless peadar. She’s Joe Duffy in disguise, she appeals to the herd and never asks the hard questions.
I see the “off the rails” staff are doing the crime reporting for the Irish Times these days.
“Wearing a navy blazer, a blue shirt and a pink tie, Mr FitzPatrick was escorted by six gardaí from Bray Garda station through a substantial media scrum and into a waiting Volkswagen Golf.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0319/breaking1.html
I meet my gp in my one of my local haunts and he’s cool.
And I know a really decent priest – so that means none of the abuse happened, right ?
Look, the medical profession has an appalling record and not just back to the Eugenics and experiments of the 30s and 40s. Not just Harold Shipman- supposedly also a cool guy. Symphysiotomy, drug trials and not just the military ones, Tuskegee – these happened in our lifetimes. Today people are dying because they are denied treatments and drugs on the grounds of cost efficiency. Think about it – the geriatrics, terminally ill and suicidal are not cost effective. And their numbers are rising.
As I said – I’m in favour of allowing people to make their own decisions but it would have to be really, really tightly controlled.
One report said he kissed the driver and another report said the driver was a man.
hahaha HM
maggot; that’s twisting what I stated. And yes obviously it’d need to be tightly controlled.
The main point is that this country is full of stupid cunts – like Miriam O’Callaghan with her factually incorrect opening statement to probably 500,000+ people – who think they have the right to stop open discussion on the matter. As usual the vocal minority setting the rules with their lies and scare-mongering.
I hate to say it but I agree with you!
HM – The pic they had of the cunt on the front page of the IT – shaved, neat clothes and immaculately groomed. I never left the cells looking like that – unshaven, grubby and rumpled. I’ll bet the cunts even gave him a special breakfast.
maggot Says:
March 19th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
HM – I never left the cells looking like that – unshaven, grubby and rumpled. I’ll bet the cunts even gave him a special breakfast.
Pork
TL;DR.
Wasn’t the religious got Nitschke kicked from four venues – it was the media calling up the venues and asking them what they were at taking money off this monstrosity of a medic.
I’m not religious at all (more of an angry atheist) but even I can see that not all religious people are child-eating paedos, and that not everything on the liberal agenda that gets derailed was done so by religious people.
Like it or not, call it conservative or not, but most Irish people don’t find a medic giving lectures in how to off yourself to be very edifying.
And businesses have to consider most people’s opinions, because that’s their customers.
I see the kerazee anarchists up by Mountjoy Square gave Doctor Death somewhere to show off his suicide kits. Fair play. Perhaps they could volunteer to try them out first.
O’Callaghan ought to be reprimanded for her inaccurate introduction statements last night. Or at the very least made to back them up.
Of course she won’t, but it demonstrates the bottom line for our pro-Fianna Fáil, pro-church national television station, funded by the same tax paying masses denied a voice of our own.
A simple phone-in section would have put her innacuracies in check live before the nation.
Irish people are travelling abroad to countries who have assisted suicide.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0108/1224261896843.html
Not that many, I know, but they have to be able to afford it and organise it. And be fit to travel.
Uncomfortably like the abortion issue – not allowed at home so those who can travel
And of course there is a possibility that people are choosing to go earlier than they would otherwise have fdone because they have to be fit to travel.
My mam – end stage cancer, in a morphine induced coma.
Same here – but no real discussion, some mention of ‘letting her go’.
Itchy, I think you meant to say: “Miriam O’Callaghan is useless peadar. She’s Joe Duffy in disguise, she appeals to the hard and always asks the herd questions.”
I met Miriam in a lift in killarney, she is well hot, need a bigger cock than mine but I’d take a run at her anyway.
The Archbishop of Westminister is on Newsnight saying that the level of child abuse in the church is lower than the level in society.
Here we go again.
When asked why it appears that the protestant, muslim, jewish church doesn’t appear to have the scandalous proportion of child abuse cases as the catholic church he said “WE DON’T KNOW THAT”
Uncap. This one is going to be another large hole
Brian D’Arcy is going to be on in a tick. Probably with Daniel O’Donnell
Congratulations for making it to the finals fo the awards! Best of luck!
I was googling Earth this morning to see what Old Dublin looked like from outer space and I landed on Grangegorman Hospital, soon to be some sort of academic institution. In the historical notes I learned that, in its original manifestation it was one of the pioneers of electro- shock therapy and pre-frontal lobotomy as means of correcting deviant behaviour in inappropiate sexual behaviour. Virtually all of these patients were referred there by the Catholic authorities i.e. the parish priest. Can’t help thinking that a combination of that old school thinking mixed into the seminary training wouldn’t help but be a win-win situation. Certainly couldn’t hurt, apart from them, that is.
I think conservative Ireland has been a good friend to a few rather bitter and weird people but it hasn’t served the country well.
On the brighter side at least more and more people are questioning the way the political systems are bent and the corruption is harder to hide because of a loss of control over the media.
I’d like to think we’ll shrug off some of the vested interests the state has always quietly protected and can get on with building a better Republic at least in social terms.
oh so fucked from drinking stout
My arse is not taking to me after my pints last night.
I hear Cardinal Brady says the Pope’s letter is in clear and simple language so us thickos can understand it. Nice of him to lower himself to the level of plebs.
>> 2 things – suicide is not illegal
Attempted suicide and suicide is illegal in Singapore
What’s the penalty for suicide in Singapore?
Holemaster Says:
March 20th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
I hear Cardinal Brady says the Pope’s letter is in clear and simple language so us thickos can understand it. Nice of him to lower himself to the level of plebs
That’s what Breda O’Brien said in The Irish Times with the last letter – we didn’t understand it.
Her headine today is
Church not the only creature in our fog of abusive past
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0320/1224266707504.html
The way I console myself when reading the shite she writes is that it could be worse, imagine being married to the auld bat.
What about castration (physical or chemical) for celibates ? What do they need their bollocks for anyway ? We could make it voluntary at first and compulsory if the abuse goes on.
Down to their last scraps of deflection now … ‘sure everybody was doing it … t’wasn’t just us’
Which shows that they still are deliberately missing the point. No other profession or organisation has actively attempted to hide paedophiles from the law or silenced its victims.
I note the Popes letter emphasises adherence to ‘Canon Law’. No mention of an obligation to report to civil authorities, just a vague reference to ‘cooperation’. More weaselling.
The Vatican consider themselves to be above the law of nations because at one time, they were the only law. They really believe civilian law applies to the lay person only and canon law applies to clergy.
The Vatican is a state and considers the abuse to be an inconvenience to be brushed aside as quickly as possible The teaching of the gospels is only a distraction from the real work of amassing wealth and power and holding onto it at all costs.
Blatant lie from Seán Brady
Seán Brady’s response
The Holy Father offers very stern words to priests and religious who have abused children. He says directly to them: ‘You betrayed the trust that was placed in you by innocent young people and their parents, and you must answer for it before Almighty God.‘
He says they must also be accountable to the processes of civil and canon law. He tells them that their crimes brought shame, dishonour and damage to the Church. ‘Openly acknowledge your guilt,‘ he says, ‘submit yourselves to the demands of justice, but do not despair of God’s mercy.‘
The lie. The only mention of civil law in the papal letter is aimed at the Bishops when he exhorts them to
“Besides fully implementing the norms of canon law in addressing cases of child abuse, continue to cooperate with the civil authorities in their area of competence.”
That is important – “their area of competence ” – in fact in the Papal Letter the stress is entirely on Canon Law and there is nothing which places Civil Law at the same level as Canon Law , let alone above it.
Chuckled at a couple of places – Mary Queen of Ireland ? Mary McAleese ? Does he know you are a republic ? Of course he played to the gallery with a bit about Brit oppression – and as for the cobblers about the pre-reformation Irish Church – ” the firm faith, strong leadership and upright morals of the Church in their native land.”
5. On several occasions since my election to the See of Peter, I have met with victims of sexual abuse, as indeed I am ready to do in the future. I have sat with them, I have listened to their stories, I have acknowledged their suffering
And from 2002 as Cardinal Ratzinger he knew what was going on and covered it up. As did JP II. And then the reference to “The Virgin Mary”. A grown man believing that you don’t need to have sex to become pregnant. You can do it all your head. Holy fuck; what a load of voodoo shite.
maggot? Where’s the ref to Queen Mary? That’s agood one I can’t see it among all the nonsense
5. In particular, there was a well-intentioned but misguided tendency to avoid penal approaches to canonically irregular situations. It is in this overall context that we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual abuse, which has contributed in no small measure to the weakening of faith and the loss of respect for the Church and her teachings.
wow. ok. I’m listening to you “Your Oh Up You’re To Your Bollix in The Cover-Up Holiness”
I’m not nearly 30% the way through it and I’m already nearly gobsmacked
Itchy – It’s in the Prayer at the end
To you, Triune God,
confident in the loving protection of Mary,
Queen of Ireland, our Mother,
and of Saint Patrick, Saint Brigid and all the saints,
do we entrust ourselves, our children,
and the needs of the Church in Ireland.
yeah; just got there; unfortunately he’s referring to the other mary, the bird who had a sprog without getting layed.
“Iona institute”
Fuck me… “Catholic think tank” is an oxymoron.