In the loadofoldbollocks that was the budget yesterday I thought this was interesting:
The rate of jobseekers benefit and supplementary welfare allowance for those aged 20 and 21 years of age who have no dependent children is being reduced to €100 per week. For those aged between 22 and 24 years, allowances will fall to €150 per week.
Surely that can’t be right. How can you decide how much assistance somebody gets based on their age? What is the difference between a 20 or 21 year old adult and an adult aged between 22 and 24? And I’m assuming those over 24 continue to get the full allowance.
If that 20 or 21 year old who has had his allowance cut gets a job, isn’t he expected to pay the same amount of tax on his earnings as someone of 34 or 47 or 59? There’s no 20-21 year old rate of tax, is there? There’s no 22-24 year old rate of tax either. So how can you discriminate against them?
A 20 year old is an adult, subject to the same laws and taxes and contributions as the rest of us. That they have no dependents is irrelevant, surely? I’m no law-talking guy so I’ll stand to be corrected on this but it’s discrimination based on age, isn’t it?
Imagine if they said OAPs over the age of the 80 were to get a lesser pension, nobody would stand for that. There’d be murder. So why is this being passed with barely a comment? If it’s supposed to be an incentive to work then it’s piss poor. Those who want to work will work, provided they can find a job. I just think this is very weird.
The other thing that made me a bit sick in my mouth was Leninhan going on about Senator Ted Kennedy and announcing some kind of Kennedy tourist attraction in Wexford. Firstly, who gives a fuck about Ted Kennedy? And lastly, who gives a fuck about Ted Kennedy? What’s the tourist attraction – a car that gets driven into an icy river from which you have to try and escape? Lenihan spoke about Kennedy as if merely mentioning his name would soften everyone up. It was embarrassing.
As the opposition spokespeople for finance gave their reaction to the budget Lenihan and Cowen sat, not making eye contact, holding their heads in their hands like a pair of doctors that have just delivered a stillborn. They know it. They know this is too little, too late. Claims that we’re over the worst of it and that a bit of positive thinking will get us through were laughable, but then that’s what this administration is.
The reaction in the media in the UK has been to compare the Irish budget with the Pre-Budget Report and many commentators are saying that Ireland has done the right thing but the UK have just tinkered around the edges to no real effect.
I agree that the sudden emergencence of an age band in social welfare payments is a bizarre one and I’ve not heard or seen that before anywhere.
Its an odd principle because now there’s a case for adjusting income tax bands and national insurance by age bracket as well…
Weird.
Like the idea of the Chappaquiddick tourist attraction though- although they should have left the wooden pilings as they are in Wexford as it would make a much more effective ramp for the cars on take-off.
“Imagine if they said OAPs over the age of the 80 were to get a lesser pension, nobody would stand for that. There’d be murder. ”
Yeah, we’ve a great track record of holding people to account for misdoings and correcting bad behaviour in government.
Hahahahahahaha, love it!
We’d bitch and moan about it like we’ll do with this and nothing would change, like with everything else.
It’s this kind of negativity that got us in this mess in the first place, Twenty.
Sub primes? That’d be the fault of all those negative Damien Rice posts you pen.
I reckon Lenihan studied the voter profile and realised that the chances of squeezing a vote from any non-retarded citizen who came of age during their administration is pretty much zero. So with nothing to lose, he’s pre-emptively screwing them.
Social partnership was the negative rock on which this state will flounder.
Do you flounder on a rock?
No, you perish. Perish. That’s what we’ll do. But with a cheeky smile.
It’s the voices (special interest groups) made him do it.
Brian, Brian!!
Yes?
I can’t get anyone to do shite work for me for shite money… I’m miles from anywhere and there’s no public transport but the real problem is you’re giving these young layabouts too much dole.
Oh…
Sort it out, Brian!
Brian, Brian!!
Yes?
We need to get the country back into the youth export business, and soon!
Alright…
Brian, Brian!!
Yes?
The local’s empty and I’m not voting with you unless you sort it out!
Yes, master…
Brian, Brian!!!!!
Yes…
Rich folks won’t be that upset if you fiddle with child benefit.
So I should…
Kick the lazy fucks who depend on on the benefit!
Oh, ok…
Apathy and complacency got us here folks.
And the same eejits were voted in again and will be if an election is called tomorrow morning.
As for you first point twenty.The age discrimination.Be interesting to take it to the ECJ.
In the UK the Jobseekers Allowance etc rates are lower for under 25s (£50.95 as opposed to £64.30). There are premia on top of that for disability, dependents etc. But the flat rate is lower for under-25s. It was introduced years ago and there was a mild fuss at the time and that’s it.
The age thing is simple. It’s to encourage them to emigrate. As Lenihans father famously said sure there isn’t room for all of us on the island. The apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree.
Speaking of the age thing, Ted Kennedy was a role model, the girl was over eighteen. It’s a subtle dig to keep pressure on the Vatican.
Did Daddy Lenihan say that? Not enough room for all us? Fucking idiot. There’s enough room for about 15 million on this island.
I remember the last ‘recession’ in the 80s, when Charlie intoned from on high that we all had to tighten our belts, and a £10 charge was introduced for attendance at a hospital outpatient/emergency clinic. Until then this was a free, universal service to which we were entitled because we paid a health contribution (now part of PRSI) deducted at source along with PAYE. Suddenly we were no longer entitled to this service although we had been and were continuing to pay for it. It couldn’t be legal, I thought. It was, because the Government said so. Of course the government was short of money because huge numbers of very well-off people had undeclared income on which they were paying no tax. Des Traynor, Ansbacher, off-shore accounts, etc etc.
Lenihan has put the accident/emergency charge up to €110, I think. Meanwhile we’re paying for Anglo and the other banks’ stupidity and greed while bank execs and directors, and the pals to whom they gave huge soft loans, are living it up in the style to which they became accustomed. At our expense.
I can never understand that A&E charge. I pay for state health care in my tax and on top of that I choose to have private health insurance. So in reality, I don’t cost the state anything if I attend hospital for elective care. If I to go A&E, I would assume the tax I have been paying for 20 years would cover it.
They really do prey on those who can least afford it.
Fuck em. €100 euro is enough for a twenty year old, especially if his living at home. Ye’d get a heap of dutch gold for that.
Fuck em. €100 euro is enough for a twenty year old, especially if his living at home. Ye’d get a heap of dutch gold for that.
oh,have ye moved off the Barter System in Wexford?
I’ll bet you 2 Shiny beads you haven’t..
There’s nothing just or equitable about most of the tax we pay. They just think of new things they can tax and we pay them. Like DIRT. What a load of shit. There’s no reason anyone should have pay tax on the interest their savings produce.
Stick your shiny beads up your hole.
Have you any shiny blue marbles?
You shouldn’t be able to live on Social Welfare for a long time without having to get a job. A year, two years max maybe – after that your benefits should decrease and if after 5 years you still haven’t gotten a job, dropped to a minimum rate or removed altogether. Social Welfare shouldn’t be a way of life, it should be a crutch in a time of need or if you’re genuinely not able to work.
Its too high at the moment anyways, so I’m not too bothered it went down. Though my living-with girlfriend is on it so we’re down a small bit. Still think lowering it was right, loath as I am to agree with anything that shower of fucks do.
People under 24 mostly don’t vote is one reason.
I think the idea is they can force most of the people of that age back into their parents houses instead of having them in separate houses and have to pay rent allowance.
You’re more likely to get a job if you live at home and are getting nagged by your parents continually that you’re eating their food and ruining their retirement etc.
But isn’t it true though that you can leave school, sign on and collect dole forever, if you feel like it?
As a system that’s shit.
I know in Spain if you get dole it’s based on your previous earnings and you only get it for a certain period of time.
presumptions, most young people live at home and have hidden income from robbing, drug dealing or undeclared work.
Thinking about the Kennedy thing. When Ireland was booming she didn’t really care about the Yanks but now everything is going to hell it’s back to the arse licking and begging bowl ?
Under-25s don’t vote much.
Ergo, FF will screw them to the wall if they need something to screw. Simple as that, really.
Isn’t there alreadya JFK memorial park thing in Wexford? I have a vague memory of being bored shitless there in the early ’80′s.
Well the people who do vote have regularly showed that FF can screw them to the wall without any recriminations either
Aren’t Jaffa cakes lovely ?
Taxman = Farmer
Taxpayers = Cows
The only debating point is the yield.
i actually agree with reducing the dole, but what if the 20 year old doesn’t have parents to fall back on?
They must still feel safe though knowing how good we treat our homeless people.
If the 20 year old doesn’t have parents to fall back on he might get off his hole and go out to McDonalds or Tesco and look for a job
Fuck that, Frank. I’d rather sit at home all day and sponge for the rest of my life.
Did you know we have a Prisoner’s Wife Allowance? Dropped to ~€190 or so in the budget. Just because some tosser gets locked up for being a criminal, we have to bail out his wife? And that’s on top of the unemployed and child benefits she might already be getting. Hell, that’s probably more than I come home with after working all week.
Quite why some of this shit goes on is beyond me. It almost makes me want to become a civil servant to go about trying to change some of the stuff.
Just before 3:45PM yesterday I saw a news item on Breaking News saying the government needed 4 billion to bail out Anglo Irish Bank. I’m just wondering if this is what the 4 billion is really needed for? Sorry I didn’t save the link…
In the interest of getting the ould facts right, many of the cuts affect new claimants only…
“The rate of Jobseeker’s Allowance or Supplementary Welfare Allowance paid to new claimants aged 20 and 21 is being reduced to €100 per week, with effect from January 2010, as has been applied from April 2009 to new claimants aged 18 or 19.
The rate of Jobseeker’s Allowance or Supplementary Welfare Allowance paid to new claimants aged 22, 23 and 24 years is being reduced to €150 per week, with effect from January 2010.
The full rate will be paid to those under 25 years of age if they participate in an approved training or education course.
20-24 year olds with dependent children will not be affected.
The personal rate of Jobseeker’s Allowance and basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance will be reduced to €150 per week where job offers or activation measures have been refused.”
The personal rate of Jobseeker’s Allowance and basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance will be reduced to €150 per week where job offers or activation measures have been refused.”
in that case they should get nothing
He keeps getting that sinking about the state of things, that’s why Kennedy comes to mid.
Ekhem ekhem.
I have a strange feeling I will be regretting this, but the heck with it.
As a under 25 who doens’t have anyone or anything to fall back on I say that this budget change is a disgrace. The assumptions are simple: they think that everyone in this age bracket lives with their ma and pa anyway and this is their pocket money while they decide what to do with the rest of their life.
Of course this is not the case when it comes to me for example. With the dole as it is I wouldn’t be able to pay for my bills and my rent now, never mind eating. But under 25′s are so young, they can surely survive a few months of starvation, can’t they?
Fuck them idiots. I’m moving back with me ma. She’s in the UK. See what I just did there…?
Did I mention I despise people who assume that young is another kind of lesser human being?
I wish I could shoot them all.
JJ, nice to hear from you again, you could come live with me ?
JJ. You had me E.
Those over 80 get a higher pension than those under 80. You don’t hear the under 80′s kicking up a stink. Most have a free electricity allowance, free fuel allowance, free TV licence, free travel, free medical care/medicines, I can’t imagine what they spend their money on.
I know you slated McSavage and his show but did you see the segment about the old lady on her death bed bequeathing her property to the church. I remember as a kid hearing stories of people who died in the County Home, their home or farm would be ‘taken over’ by the church or the Health Board.
Im 20 and Unemployed , TBh im just going to make up the loss by having to resort to the time old recession buster that is Robbing ould ones. Only fair considering that they didn’t get cut.
This whole budget thing is just a smoke-screen, a diaphanous transparency, a smoke and mirrors job to distract the plebs from the overwhelming stench of the supermassive pachyderm lurking in the corner (there there NAMA, good elephant.)
We bitch’n'moan about trivia while the ruling classes sail magisterially on through the “charity” ball season as if nothing has happened.
We are timid, easily distracted sheep. Get used to it…
To answer your question, the state has a wider discretion to discriminate on the basis of age than it does in relation to many other forms of discrimination. As long as it can provide some form of justification – and the courts tend to be pretty generous about how they interpret this – it’s legal. Rotten, but legal.
As a 23 year old who is just about to return to Ireland from France and planned to live on the dole while starting up a small business, this reduction will certainly hinder my plans and make me more likely to emigrate permanently. Of the 100 or so friends I made in University in Ireland, more than half of them have already left the island, never to return, and they were the smart half, whom we could have used to help the country be something better in the future.
Hopefully the other half who stayed will become politically aware and active, now that they realise that the government can seriously fuck with them at the touch of a button. Although in the young voter’s minds, the opposition are just as bad, so they may as well stay living at home for as long as possible, living off whatever meger handouts they get and do bong hits and drinking (now cheaper) Bavaria while watching bear in the big blue house and downloading movies off the internet.
The age differentiation is worrying, as Twenty pointed out, and is hopefully not the start of a trend. But the dole was too high anyhow, 204 euro (not including rent allowance) is a king’s ransom compared to most of Europe, some people working full time at Aldi wouldn’t make that on a bad week.
maggot, do you cook as well as me ma?
I’m a wonderful cook and I have a guest room with en suite loo!
Will you wash my socks?
Only if you let me wash your underwear as well.
My underwear needs to be handwashed in warm soapy water, otherwise the lace gets all messed up. Not letting you do this. Socks or nothing.
I’m an expert in warm soapy water. But your choice!
I was unemployed for over 18 months, as one person said about McDonalds or Tescos, they wouldn’t hire me because I was overqualified had to many letters after my name you know and the qualified sector of work I was looking for moved the bar to looking for people with degrees only so I was over qualified for the “meaningless” jobs and just underqualified for my profession. This shoved me back into the education system which I believe has gotten worse and now when I get my degree I will still be left looking for work as by the time I qualify the country will be in ruin from this non job creating budget. Unless I was to take up banking my industry will not be saved and moreover I’ll proobably have to emigrate. It is not a case of everyone under 25 doesn’t look or bother. Many people who do trades are now suffering especially the young people just qualified. And you can bet almost for cert that these fully qualified tradespoeple probably didn’t have mammy and daddy to pay for anything let alone do it now when their unemployed. I don’t understand how taking the money off will force them to find employment especially if they were stuck in a quagmire such as myself. It’s a load of shit really.