Mental reservation
Posted on | November 26, 2009 | 44 Comments
Words fail me. There’s so much to digest in the Dublin Diocesan report but this report in the Irish Times is just gobsmacking.
“Mental reservation”. What utter cunts.
More thoughts on it tomorrow …
If you can wade through it the report itself is here.
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44 Responses to “Mental reservation”
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November 26th, 2009 @ 5:23 pm
From @christinebohan on Twitter.
One of the abusers was chaplain in Our Lady’s Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin where he sexually assaulted kids aged between 8 and 11.
He abused the children in the hospital and they knew. Fuck me.
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:33 pm
THey should be disbanded (The Catholic Church)
They are a corrupt and pointless entity..
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:44 pm
Years and years and years of listening to these men preaching from the altar. I turned away from it all when I was about 16, just never believed in it. But what about all those people who genuinely believed in them, who really thought these men were preaching something good and wholesome? It’s a massive deception and betrayal.
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:44 pm
Is it just me or is The Independent not really going for this story?
http://www.independent.ie
not much mention there.
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:48 pm
They’re waiting on word form Opus Dei HQ
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:49 pm
But will it be enough to reach breaking point? All the outrage at the Ryan report in May & then what? Will this one be another case of turning a blind eye after initial furious reaction?
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
Probably…
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:57 pm
Lies and bullshit, they never knew, yet attended conferences on child abuse in the 70s. Knew enough to take out insurance, surely conspiracy to defraud as well as conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice? Child abuse been a problem from the earliest days of the Church.
That Australian Archbishop, caught and charged with selling and distributing Child Porn this year ?
And people worry about the Scientologists and Jehovahs witnesses ?
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:58 pm
What a shower of hoors melts, the lying fuckin bastards, hs’s in, but he’s not in, he was out’ but he’s not out, he was in before he went out, and he was out before he came in, you know what I mean, as the Irish say!
November 26th, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
some good news
“A GROUP of academics and students at NUI Maynooth has called on the university to suspend its appointment of former taoiseach Bertie Ahern as a visiting professor pending the outcome of the Mahon tribunal.
Campaigners said up to 1,000 signatures opposing the appointment had been collected among the student body and a public meeting on the issue took place last week.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1126/1224259488850.html?via=mr
November 26th, 2009 @ 6:11 pm
What was the last 80 years for?
A free and just Republic?
We need to start again.
November 26th, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
im genuinely sick to my stomach, as part of a young generation i was taught about the catholic church to be a very important and highly respected religion by the generation that were raped beaten and abused by the church themselves. ive taken the slags of my mates for still being religous and still having faith in catholicism. but i just dont know anymore. havent lost my fauth in god but i doubt i’ll darken another churches door again. i feel overwhelmed with anger ad dissapoinment. “we didnt co-operate wit the gardai FULLY” final straw on the camel’s back for me
November 26th, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
Think on this, 2012, Ireland is supposed to be hosting the Fiftieth Eucharistic Congress.
Will anybody have the balls to tell them to fuck off elsewhere ?
November 26th, 2009 @ 6:25 pm
The Catholic Church don’t want people to have a direct relationship with God so to speak.
The problem starts with having a Pope. Essentially, a cabal grows around him and becomes the clergy. That perpetuates itself and becomes a self serving and self governing monster. They use the teachings of God as a currency to exploit ordinary people. They frighten them and control them into submission. They transcend the law of the land and operate with impunity and in collaboration with states.
There is nothing wrong with believing in God. Problems start when you have people claiming to be closer to God than you.
November 26th, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
That is the essence of protestantism HM.
But The Mainstream Protestant churches also become corporate entities and lose sight of their supposed mission.
Really pisses me off that when I was a Kid I saw a few Protestant Telegraphs , the mainstream clergy and most decent people were outraged at what Paisley was saying about Priests and Nuns.
Turns out that he wasnt making it up. Imagine, these fuckers have proven that all the narrow minded bigots, the dregs of my community, who festered in their hatred were to some extent right.
November 26th, 2009 @ 7:05 pm
What about successive Ministers for Justice? Any blame allocated there?
November 26th, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
Until recently none of them would have stood a chance Itchy. Look what happened to Noel Browne on a considerably less sensitive issue. Look at Bertie’s relations with the Church.
November 26th, 2009 @ 7:50 pm
I was going to blog about this, but it’s going to be covered (probably better) in a lot of other places.
Then Catholic Church is rotten from the top down and has been for a very long time. Systemic abuse was followed by systemic cover-up and intimidation.
So the system is wrong.
Why were so many priests abusing children and why were so many accepting and complicit in this abuse. Is there something in the church that attracts pedophiles, or is it the nature of celibacy and repressed sexuality that drives them to it?
Is it the nature of their communal power, that gave them apparent dominion over childrens’ innocence, is rape a crime of power more than sex?
If you are a sexually repressed, celibate, is it easier to pick a child to let off sexual urges because they represent a safer bet?
And what of God, the one that should protect the innocent and punish the guilty. It’s horseshit, all of it.
These bastards chose their victims well, I would imagine the children cited in the report represent a drop in the ocean for these vile fantasists.
And the Vatican, well they didn’t even reply to inquiries. Fucking Cunts
November 26th, 2009 @ 7:56 pm
The basis of their power, besides spiritual blackmail and coercion ( go against us and you go to hell ) is their insistence on controlling education wherever possible. Brainwashing. That needs to be stopped as a matter of urgency.
November 26th, 2009 @ 7:59 pm
Agree completely.
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
Paul Blanshard wrote some fascinating books in the 30s that caused quite a stir such as the one below Twenty.
http://www.archive.org/details/irishandcatholic010914mbp
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:19 pm
Sorry, 19fifties.
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:19 pm
Another one
http://www.archive.org/details/communismdemocra009480mbp
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:27 pm
Will have a look through them tomorrow.
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
The rape of an adult is definitely about power not sex. An adult can consent to sex, but in rape there is no choice for the victim or desire by the perpetrator to give that choice. An adult rape victim suffers many difficult emotions – nowhere amongst those is the there any thought that they’ve had sex. Loss of self-worth because they were not thought enough of to be spared rape is a common one – and a rapist’s desire to inflict that feeling is about power.
But children cannot consent to sex. They have neither the understanding nor wherewithal to consent or refuse. So the abuser may feel a sense of power but that is not the primary factor because there is little power in abusing an easy victim.
Child abuse is sexually-motivated and until the church understands these paedophiles for what they are, and not as men with unfulfilled lust for adults, the problem will continue.
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
The second one is especially good.
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:39 pm
Christy , under Canon Law it was a lesser sin for a priest to engage in sexual activity with a child than a mature woman. In part based on the avoidance of pregnancy, contraception or abortion , and of course, to protect the Church from any paternity liability.
November 26th, 2009 @ 8:55 pm
Yes I know Maggot – it was also deemed by the church to be more of a problem if the child was a boy because the church wrongly views that as homosexuality not paedophilia. Which is also seriously screwed-up morality.
But in criminal law and under all that is good and decent the reverse is true about adults vs children. The church cannot be immune from those things or pretend it is/was unaware of them. Nor can it insist on adherence to immoral, damaging Canon Law and at the same time claim to be upholders of good.
I know you all know that, this stuff & their excuses just make me rage.
November 26th, 2009 @ 9:00 pm
The report doesn’t need much “wading through” Twenty, it’s fucking riveting. Almost every sentence requires a gasp and a “Fuck me! I don’t believe it! This is a fucking Christian church?”
Where did a parish priest in the hard economic times of the 70s/80s get the loot to build private fucking swimming pools for diddling young boys?
What’s with the Vatican’s “diplomatic channels” only and “this is a local church issue”. Whatever happened to the Universal Mother Church and its Vicar of Christ.
Universal Motherfuckers and Vicar of Cunts if you ask me.
Scientology is beginning to look not so bad after all…
And is there any chance we can dig up that Supercunt Archdickhead McQuaid and hang his fucking bones on some bridge where everyone who passes can piss on them?
November 26th, 2009 @ 9:19 pm
The church cannot be immune from those things or pretend it is/was unaware of them. Nor can it insist on adherence to immoral, damaging Canon Law and at the same time claim to be upholders of good.
Sadly that was a condition of support for Government in many Catholic Countries. Some of the deals done exempting the Clergy from any lay accountability are incredible in the current light. Spain, Portugal, Italy etc
Then again, and I’ll word this carefully, Look at the incredible cap on the liability of the Catholic Church in Ireland that was conferred on them by a man who, despite flaunting an extramarital relationship, kept the full and public support of the same Church.
November 26th, 2009 @ 9:53 pm
“mental reservation is a concept developed and much discussed over the centuries, which permits a church man knowingly to convey a misleading impression to another person without being guilty of lying”
Sounds like some sort of Level 5 Brown Belt Scientologist bullshit.
Crowd of Zenu worshipping cunts.
November 26th, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
Fuck it. Thats not right is it.
Its the worst-kind-of-lawyer version of the truth.
Or like someone waving his fist in your face and shouting ‘not touching you’ over and over…
If they were also watching you being raped, and then protecting the rapist the analogy exactly matches.
Cathologists / Scientolics – Catholics who use semantics to stay inside the law.
November 26th, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
Hahaha the church has actually admitted to training their priests in doublethink from Orwells 1984!!!
“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies”
The church’s mental reservation :
“mental reservation is a concept developed and much discussed over the centuries, which permits a church man knowingly to convey a misleading impression to another person without being guilty of lying”
November 26th, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
November 26th, 2009 @ 10:21 pm
They can scrape the bottom of the barrel in terms of morality but as long as they stay inside the law nothing will happen.
We’ll have until Christmas of outrage and then it’ll be silent reverence for baby jesus.
Because, sure you couldn’t be tormenting them then when they’re officiating an occasion like that now. Wouldn’t be right.
”Problems start when you have people claiming to be closer to God than you”
- Spot on
November 26th, 2009 @ 10:37 pm
I wonder if the real Cardinal of Ireland, Joe Coleman, will jump on this bandwagon ? Da Virgin was just saying to me last night …..
November 26th, 2009 @ 10:53 pm
Not much Irish ‘craic’ in here today !
November 27th, 2009 @ 8:37 am
It’s no surprise that here in Spain and especially amongst the Latin American community, the Catholic Church is losing thousands of followers every year to the Evangelical movement. Now I’m not saying that I’m crazy about the Evangelicals, frankly all organised religion scares the piss out of me. But at least they’re a fairly participative egalitarian church where hierarchy is kept to a minimum. This makes abuse of power more difficult.
November 27th, 2009 @ 9:15 am
Just read that mental reservation bit, I’ve had to read it a few times to be sure I wasn’t missing something.
It’s the equivalent to having your fingers crossed in your pocket.
Utter, utter, utter cunts, with Connell, king of the cunts.
November 27th, 2009 @ 10:31 am
Maggot, yep, the Protestant faith has no central Zorg type leader in a gown and funny hat. And the older and uglier I get, the more I see it as the religion which suited Ireland more than Catholicism. It was never an issue with early Republicanism.
Can we start over again?
November 27th, 2009 @ 10:37 am
If they’re admitting to using “tricks” like this to lie (and even if they can’t admit it, that’s what it is), then they know they’re doing something wrong. I mean, they have to know it.
Do they admit that?
November 27th, 2009 @ 10:51 am
I could do without hearing Nell McCafferty on the radio. She just hates for the sake it.
November 27th, 2009 @ 11:29 am
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1127/breaking25.htm
Go and shite.
November 27th, 2009 @ 11:26 pm
“Politicians around the country were celebrating today as a moral basis was uncovered for the practice of misleading the people. Senior Fianna Fail sources expressed quiet satisfaction that the catholic church had, in the report of the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation, outlined the church concept of “mental reservation”, which allows one to knowingly mislead people “without being guilty of lying”. A leading theologian confirmed that Bertie Ahern is now “quite likely” to go to heaven.”
see http://poppycockreview.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/catholic-church-reveals-secret-of-deceiving-without-lying/