Expenses problem solved
You know, for all the complaining and belly-aching, it makes me glad that I live in a country where justice is meted out as efficiently and effectively as it is here in Ireland. Not a few short weeks ago we were up in arms about TDs expenses and the fact they were, almost to a man, claiming money for all kinds of stuff without having to provide reciepts for anything.
Then we got rid of John O’Donoghue as Ceann Comhairle and now the whole problem is solved. Well, I assume it is because nobody’s talking about it anymore, are they? No. Now it’s Public Service v Private Sector in preparation for the inevitable civil war. It’s teacher against plumber, Garda taking on shop worker, Fireman vs waiter and nurse against hairdresser.
Let’s give credit where it’s due. We couldn’t have this kind of battle if we were all worried and outraged about politicians expenses so big up to the Gubbernment for sorting that out with such alacrity.
When the budget is released in December and we are taxed to the hilt to pay for the mistakes and the greed and the fraud perpetrated on the people of this country by a very small few we’ll be able to take solace in the fact that politicians have led by example. We can be proud that they got their own house in order first before telling us what to do, eh?
What a good example they will set by taking a pay cut. ‘Hey! Look at us. We’re prepared to take a hit … now it’s your turn’, and we’ll know deep in our hearts that they can no longer offset any pay cut by simply bumping up their unvouched expenses. We’ll take comfort, as we munch our freezing cold gruel, that TDs no longer get an extra payment for simply turning up to work, that those overnight stay expenses have been shelved and all the other perks that they enjoyed in boom time have been consigned to history.
We can look the UK where they’re engaged in the costly process of prosecuting some MPs for fiddling their expenses and we can feel sorry for them. Sorry that they don’t have a system like ours. Sorry that they have to go to the bother of finding replacements for those in public office who have systematically defrauded the people they were elected to represent. As we go toe to toe with our defined benefit pension enemies, for once we can look down our noses at the English because we solved all our problems by taking a gammy cloak and a gavel away from one man.
Damn, we’re good.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:40 am
I remember a particular politician in the 80’s, Ray McSharry, said that the country was too small and there were too many people living in it therefore emigration was a good thing. Fianna Fail are at it again. The less people they have to pay welfare to, the more they keep for themselves. Bertie Ahearn ; just kept giving the unions everything, and more. Therefore when Berie and his corrupt friends hiked all their own expenses and wages the unions just grinned.
You get the government you deserve.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:46 am
I know what you mean, i can’t think of another country with so little corruption. except maybe Ghana.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0130/1232923376240.html
November 17th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Ghana looks at Ireland and thinks ‘Now those guys make us look like amateurs’.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:51 am
“The survey found that about 70% of respondents had been involved in bribery is some way or another; and moreover that 90% of those looked on unconcerned when corruption occurred in their presence.”
Ghana or Ireland?
November 17th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Ireland?
November 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Thing about corruption is it becomes endemic. It started here in response to British rule. You had to pull one over the Brits to get ahead. That’s the way you survived. You either collaborated with them or you stole from them. Either way, it was dirty business. That mentality is still deep in the Irish psyche. Post colonial thinking.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Nah, Ghana, but i would expect a similar response from a FF conference. (assuming they would tell the truth for a change)
November 17th, 2009 at 11:10 am
A yes, after clearing up all that expense-claiming unpleasantness and all other corruption, the government can now ensure that the Liffy flows with ginger beer instead of water, that all Irish air pollution smells of lavender, that the 2020 Olympics be held in Kinnegad, that every Irish citizen knows the words to the national anthem and that consultants in national hospitals can cure anything with pixie dust.
And yay, the emerald paradise that is Ireland shall henceforth be known as Cowen’s Camalot!
November 17th, 2009 at 11:11 am
So true, Hm.
Was just discussing this with the husband. He says his Polish customers say they would have revolted before now at home.
We don’t know how.
The idea that we need to be looked after is ingrained in us, I think it’s the thing paralysing us in this face of all this corruption and bad management and fuckery.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am
And what really gets me is these corrupt politicians would be the first ones to claim to be patriotic.
Treasonous more like…
Treason: the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:29 am
“Salary of incoming AIB head to exceed State cap on bank pay”
http://tinyurl.com/yftfxhv
November 17th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Fucking hell, they are absolutely toothless incompetent cretins.
Banks : “give us billions or the country will be ruined”
Gov : “here you go”
Banks : “actually we want more”
Gov : “ok but you have to get a new director of our choice”
Banks : “no, we’ll take the money and hire who we want”.
Gov : “ok, but you need to have a pay cap”
Banks : “no”
Gov : “ok”
November 17th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Heard Frank Fahy on the radio this morning saying that this was no problem, that Varadkar and Pat Rabbitte were just talking gibberish when they pointed out that it is in direct contravention of what the Minister for Finance said.
The banks think they can get away with anything. If they let this pass then it’s open season. Nobody’s word means a shite.
Time to seriously think about emigration.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:39 am
To be fair there’s some merit to the argument that it’d be difficult to bring someone in on €500,000 if they’re earning more elsewhere but Fahy was a right cunt.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:46 am
But he’s the person who the government who said not to hire, like they said with Richie Boucher (another insider).
And who decided that no one else was good enough for the job… AIB.
It’s like a circle of mates hiring each other and telling their retarded rich uncle, nah Jimmy is the only one who can do the job, and sure Jimmy doesn’t work for less than . . . eh 12 million per year. Trust me. Oh and we need more cash. no we can’t sell our own assets cos er . . . oh look a goose.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Plus, as Rabbitte pointed out, you have the whole Chief Exec/Chairman in one job thing going on, which is disastrous (as per Anglo).
http://www.insideireland.ie/index.cfm/section/news/ext/AIB004/
November 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Why do you think that the French and the Americans living abroad are allowed vote and the Irish diaspora don’t get a vote? (Despite both France and the US being Republics?)
Because if FF fuck up the unhappy voters emigrate, thats why. So you are left with the people who will put up with anything as recent institutionalised child-rape coverups and the paying off of bankers debts by the taxpayers show.
There isn’t a government in Ireland. There is an oligarchy and the ‘citizens’ are there to pay for whatever floats their lifestyle.
The first Irish Republic is a failure if you want to measure it against any known Republic. Even in the States and the UK, two countries where corruption is not unknown, can’t get away with the crap hoisted at the Irish public by their so-called electoral representatives.
By far the biggest and most costly benefit thieves in the Irish Republic sit in the Dail or get rewarded with a lucrative quango post to keep them from talking.
Until such time as we stop hole-in-the-corner allocations of public works to pals of TDs (electronic vote machine storage anyone?) then the corruption will never stop.
How long will it be before we are told that we MUST have major public building works t stimulate the economy provide work? That’ll be more billions going into predictable pockets.
We need something like Paul Staines’ (Guido Fawkes’) site based beyond the reach of Irish judiciary with journos prepared to go down the FOI route.
And we need cunts like John O’Donoghue AND his missus seeing the inside of a jail cell for malfeasance in public life.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am
We need something like Paul Staines’ (Guido Fawkes’) site based beyond the reach of Irish judiciary with journos prepared to go down the FOI route.
It’s very new but these boys are trying – http://thestory.ie/
November 17th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Nice one Twenty and thanks for the link. I notice thestory.ie have a spreadsheet there on the site showing which organisations are covered by FOI requests which is handy.
At least it looks like they are aware of the Sunlight Centre for Open Politics as they have links to it.
There’s only one hope I reckon of cleaning some of the shite out of public life in Ireland and that is that the newspapers and RTE no longer get to decide what the public sees.
Guido Fawkes, whatever you may think of his libertarian politics, is the first major success I can think of where bloggers have beaten the print and screen journos to the punch.
We desperately need something like it in for teh Republic. The funny thing is that a recent war between a Labour (now ex) spin doctor Damian McBride and Paul Staines was a battle between two Irish lads deeply involved in UK politics.
Ireland is smaller and well-set for a blogger led revolution in terms of annoying the establishment for rule changes which make it harder for corruption to take place. Nothing much happens in Ireland without someone somewhere knowing about it and I really think there is a major need for a whistleblowing campaign in Ireland.
Fuck knows what nonsense is still going on in and around the Oireachtas.
November 17th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Unconvinced about this post colonial/blame the Brits argument. Reading the early history of the people of this Island, long before the civilising influences of 12th century and all that followed, the Irish have always been grasping cunts and no matter where they went in the world they took their behaviour with them, be it Canada (spits}, America or Australia. After all that is why the then Pope wanted Henry to sort things out.
On a different note, is it coincidence that the only politician jailed in the UK over this corruption thing was a member of UKIP, aka BNP Lite ?
November 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
How do, maggot. Tom Wise was an MEP for UKIP. His expenses weren’t part of the Sunlight Centre FOI’s.
I believe his expenses came to light after an investigation by OLAF, the EU watchdog (!) and he is the second UK MEP to be jailed for expense fiddling. The other was an old gut called Ashley Mote who served less than 12months because it was less than a twelve month sentence actually returned as an MEP after being released!
The Sunlight Centre and Guido Fawkes have been hammering at MPs and Lords’ expenses, notably bringing down a number of high-flyers including Jacqui Smith, the Home Office Minister.
There were torturous and embarrassing attempts by MPs to head off any examination and reform of expenses including an attenpt to guillotine through a piece of legislation which would have kept the current system.
The only thing that stopped them was that they were being tracked by the media and had to drop their attempt to head off reform.
Suddenly there are 100 MPs very interested in renewing acquaintance with their families- many of whom they employ:)
The expenses trough in the UK has come to a screeching halt- thats not to say there won’t be brown envelopes changing hands but at least if they have to be visibly biased in some way they are at least being monitored now.
Ireland? Aw. O’Donoghue had his hands pried off the cash register and has gone off to Kerry to sulk about the nasty Dublin men who made him stop stealing taxpayers money to blow on himself and the missus. Will her or his missue be repaying money? Facing charges?
Nope. Same as the Ryan Commission, the Mahon Tribunals etc- just a showpiece for them where they get to pretend something is being done for the Irish taxpayer.
Even when Irish politicians do get busted they go into a fake limbo of ‘disgrace’ without actually being penalised in any way.
Michael Woods is still sitting at home in his nice house in Tipperary and the whole country including the legal and judicial systems know damn well he tried to fiddle 1billion euros out of the Irish taxpayer so he could earn his Papal knighthood.
That was a clear attempt at fraud and an unapologetic one at that. Where are the fraud charges?
November 17th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3f36c9c4-d2d0-11de-af63-00144feabdc0.html
Finacial Times name Brian Lenihan as the worst Minister for Finance in Europe
In other news a bear was seen shitting in the woods.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Even when Irish politicians do get busted they go into a fake limbo of ‘disgrace’ without actually being penalised in any way.
Beverly Flynn too.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
The only reason they do it is because they know there will be no real consequences. You have to have a brass neck to go into Irish politics in the first place so they are already well equipped to deal with the so-called ‘disgrace’ when they get busted for going inevitably too far and getting too greedy.
Why did Bertie Ahern not have a bank account when he was Minister for Finance? Was it a case of him never having one (even though it turns out he was well capabble of opening an account in England?
If there was a reason wjy he couldn’t open a bank account in Ireland (post expensive seperation did he go bankrupt?).
If he couldn’t hold a bank account in Ireland he should not even have been a TD never mind a Minister.
Did anybody ever get to the bottom of why Ireland’s then Minister of Finance was changing his salary cheque across a bar counter?
November 17th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
bears are dirty cunts
November 17th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Did anybody ever get to the bottom of why Ireland’s then Minister of Finance was changing his salary cheque across a bar counter?
Yeah, cute hoorism.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Captain – we all await the tribunal report into sterling/dollar
Grainne Carrutj very nearly told the whole tale; seemingly Des O’Neil thought he had Bertie but she backed off, started crying and the rest is history.
bertie ahearn will stop at nothing; he is vile.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
The FOI Ombudsman claims that they are 2 years behind in processing appeals due to lack of staff, only now dealing with appeals from 2007. Why is there no media publicity on this?
November 17th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
That’s correct. Letters to this effect have recently been sent out to those awaiting appeals. The FOI is therefore broken. Will it be fixed, will extra staff be allocated to the Ombudsman’s office. Hell freezes over.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Bertie left a lot of people bruised.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Yeah, you can be very sure they won’t be allocating more staff to FOI requests any time soon.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Hate to point this out, but we keep voting the fuckers in. It’s been obvious for years that FF is as corrupt as anything, charlie Haughey, Ray Burke, Bertie et al, but we keep voting them in. not only FF, but Michael Lowry is still getting elected, there are tons of examples. If you act like a turnip-headed gobshite, you are likely to be treated like one. If you believed the Irish public to be stupid, as we clearly are, then who here would not help themselves to the goodies, safe in the knowledge that you will get elected again next time?
November 17th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
2007 FF Election Campaign:
“Vote for us and the cocaine, hookers and champagne keeps flowing and we can keep pretending everything is ok. If you don’t, then the country will go down the drain.”
Enough people bought it to keep them in power.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
What have Fine Gael or Labour said that makes anyone think they’ll be any different?
On a serious note though supposing there are good honest people out there wanting to have a go with solutions?
They’d have to be mad to associate themselves with the crookedness thats only recently really started coming to light.
To get any better class of person as a political representative we absolutely have to have serious governance reform or the decent ones won’t even get in the queue, never mind come to the fore in Irish politics.
If that means upsetting some prospective little TD’s daughter or son by barring family of a sitting TD from standing then that’s what it’ll have to take.
I don’t give a fuck about FF children’s benefit system- otherwise known as the Oireachtas.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Is there anywhere that I can get a list of all TD’s that have been ‘allegedly’ involved in corruption, fraud, cute hoorism or just plain wrongness??
It’d be interesting to see it all written down in one list – from tax evasion Flynn to Conor ‘kebabs\Nazi Salute’ Lenihan – the minister for Integration, the minister for finance with no bank account, Ned O’Keefe – 75,000 in expenses last year but rathcormac doesn’t need a school cos they didn’t vote for him…
Getting 1 story at a time, just makes people immune to all the constant crap.. and then come election time they get voted in again because they’re the ones that fixed the potholes on the boreen outside my house…
The sooner we have elections on saturdays and the Irish abroad can vote the better – younger\PAYE employed voters might actually outnumber the aul ones and the self employed voting for who did favours for who in the civil war… and vote FF every time..
November 17th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Wordhole, just get a list of the members of the Oireachtas.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Heh @ HM. Too true, too true. And for those who may not be ‘legally’ corrupt (taking backhanders, fiddling expenses, etc.), inaction is also corruption in my book. If you take the money and do fuck all for it, that’s corruption.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Incompetence is the greatest form of corruption.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
The whole political family thing in Ireland is really wrong. It’s like an unofficial royal ascendancy.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Holemaster, you may well be right. Looking back along the grandson/granddaughter track to fathers (usually) and back to De Valera’s little tribe makes you wonder.
And then think of Martin Mansergh’s comment under pressure- ‘You should listen to your betters’.
Try taking a look at famous names from modern Irish history- they are littered with connections to the landed gentry in England and particularly clumped together as Papal Knights etc.
I don’t know what the fuck was declared back in 1916 but whatever it was was diverted by a small group of Fianna Failers into something more akin to Belize (former British Honduras).
Lift the lid on the history of the Irish Republic and put some of the names through the intergrinder and you come up with some results that would indicate SOME people got home rule and the rest were told to fuck off and learn the words to Amhrann na Bhfian.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
It’s not just incompetence, Larry, it’s inaction that a major problem. Look at the senior civil servants going on strike next week. Again I ask, how the fuck could anyone tell they were on strike?
If senior civil servants went on strike for six months, how would we know? Most of them do fuck all and are responsible for a huge amount of the inertia in the civil service. Without them, the civil service might actually improve.
Also their representative was lying through his teeth on the 6.1 RTE news last night when he was asked about their pay scales.
Brian Dobson should have slapped him.
November 17th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
maggot. us grasping irish cunts just simply couldnt learn from the example of our benevolent rulers of 600 years.
November 17th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Like it or not,your part of Ireland would have been better off if it had stayed in the UK Sam.
November 17th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
tip
Putting “like it or not” at the beginning of a political argument only serves to highlight ones deluded sense of superiority, in my opinion.
November 17th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
neat side step Sam !
November 17th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
And there is nothing deluded about it, as a Brit I AM superior to you LOL
November 17th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
the brits are as fucked as us financially, I thought? But we will,are being, bailed out by the fourth Reich, thanks very much.
November 17th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
and much as I may give out, I love Ireland and being Irish. And would detest the idea of british rule.
November 17th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
It’s because of people like you that Ireland has endured FF. Still, better the Ryan report than the Brits, eh ?
November 17th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Maggot, the British weren’t averse to a bit of Ryan report themselves, there are about 500,000 “Australians” who know a thing or two about the benevolence of the British system. Seems as bad as ours….
November 17th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
That is bollix el cuno. Kids were sent abroad, for sure, but what Happened in Ryan was done in Ireland, by Irish people to Irish youngsters.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:53 am
The Ryan Report doesn’t invalidate the idea of an Irish Republic. It just shows that the Irish Republic should have been totally aconfessional from the start, and that the influence and power of the Catholic Church should have been minimized from day one.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
But it wasn’t.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Sorry, maggot, I know everyone has moved on, but kids from poor families, orphans etc., were rounded up and handed over to people who were supposed to look after them, but were then subjected to physical, sexual and psychological abuse. In one case it was Ireland, one case it was Australia. What does the location matter – in both cases, it was our governments washing their hands of inconvenient children and handing them over to criminals. “Kids were sent abroad” doesn’t quite cut it, I’m afraid.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
They were right, Home Rule was Rome Rule. And it’s taken us 80 years to see the damage it’s done to us. All religions should be free to practise but none should be part of Government.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
And maggot’s implied notion that Brits are genetically incapable of mistreating kids is good for a laugh if nothing else
November 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Sorry, you chaps are pathetic. Suggest you do some reading. And of course the Good old Irish Catholic Church had a hand in many of the exports of Children, who often were Irish, from England.
Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1118/1224259043528.html
G O’S of course there is and was mistreatment but NOTHING on the scale of what happened in Ireland. That is fact.
It;s not a racial thing, it is cultural and political. People raised in a Catholic ethos are brainwashed away from the sanctity of rights of the individual. It is no coincidence when we look at the fascist and right wing dictatorships of Spain, Portugal, Italy, South America and to a Large extent Germany, that these are countries with Catholic societies.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
It’s funny when I try to tell people why I’m an atheist they usually tell me Hitler was one, therefore it’s bad. Now maggot tells me he’s Catholic as well – there’s no getting away from this guy!
M, it’s not surprising that an Irish paper will home in on the Irish links in a story such as this(i had seen it) – maybe you could send me a link for a similar one from Norn Iron – I don’t read very well. Pathetic, brain-washed southerner
November 19th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
It’s worth investigating the adoption procedure in Ireland in the past el cuno. I’m not on my home computer or I’d point you in the right direction. Prime concern was not the welfare of the children but that at all costs they most not come within a beagle’s gowl of protestants. Same thing was seen during the Dublin Lockout.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:19 am
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1120/1224259176691.html
ha !
November 28th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Leave us poor plumbers out of it. It was Jo the plumber who got us into trouble. Im married to a teacher.