The right to die
Posted in Blog by Twenty Major on August 20th, 2008
A couple of weeks ago I was walking through town on a beautiful summer’s day. I strolled down Nassau Street on the left hand side heading towards Dawson Street.
I ignored the beggar outside that Irish music shop, side-stepped short people with their eye popping umbrellas and other assorted city folk as they scurried hither and thither at lunchtime. Outside one of the tourist shops where they sell tourist stuff but Aran jumper tourist stuff and not plastic ‘Made in Taiwan’ leprechaun tourist stuff I spotted a couple.
The man was tall, distinguished looking with a fine raincoat. With him was his wife (I assume) who sat in a wheelchair. She had a tube in her throat, she was about as frail as anyone could be possibly be, her skin was almost translucent and she was, without doubt, the unhappiest looking person I have ever seen in my life. Maybe it’s because she wanted to go to EuroDisney on holidays, maybe she doesn’t like the rain, or Irish people, but more than likely she was just miserable at having to endure life the way she was living it.
You could see it in her face. She was always going to have be pushed around, she’d never get her strength back and watching fit, vibrant people hurry past her must have been like hundreds of ‘har har’ kids from the Simpons passing by and going ‘har har’.
I will leave instructions with those closest to me that if I ever get too sick to clean myself, wash myself, feed myself, wipe my arse and look back to check on the colour, texture and consistency of my own poo then I want to be let go. And by let go I mean euthanised.
I find the fact that we don’t have the right to die a strange one. Surely if we are of sound mind but ailing body that’s a decision we should be allowed to take. If we are so compassionate about animals, ensuring that they don’t suffer from illness, why do we prolong the suffering of people who would be better off dead? It sounds harsh but the reality is surely harsher. We treat sick animals better than we treat sick people.
An relative of mine had Motor Neurone disease. Proper Motor Neurone disease and not the crappy dose the still alive Stephen Hawking has. She went from being a healthy, vital woman to someone whose body just slowly stopped working. Just her body though. Not her mind. To me that’s worse than any prison sentence, trapped inside a shell, knowing how sick you are but unable to do anything about it. Imagine how your brain must go into overdrive, especially when there comes a time when you can no longer communicate in any way. You have all the same thoughts and ideas and feelings but no way of expressing them. If there’s a hell that’s it, not some mythical fiery place.
That woman’s face, the one on Nassau Street, is still with me weeks later and I can’t get it out of my mind. Her downturned mouth, the look of resignation, the overwhelming misery of knowing that your time is nearly up but that your final months of years are going to spend in a painful, undignified manner. Yet Rover is given the kind of decorous goodbye that most us will never have.
I just don’t understand.
Well the laws are there to prevent people being forced into “ending it” for the sake of their families, innit.
It’s a hard one to consider. There are definately cases where it should be allowed. It’s the prevention of abuse that is the difficult part.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I am mostly neutral on most things in life. Happily apathetic, accepting, as it were.
But this topic makes me want to fight for change. This insistence (in law, in society) that we cling on to the uselss fragments of life even though we are completely useless to ourselves and everyone around. It is unnatural and unnecessary and cruel.
I, and my family, once had to choose to end life support or keep it going. We chose to pull the plug. It wasn’t easy, but it was the right thing to do.
I have a firm agreement, a promise, from my wife to help me exit gracefully should needs be. It’s all I really ask in the long term.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:18 am
1
I fail to see a good argument for not allowing people the right to die.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:25 am
2
Yup, If I ever get into a condition like that I want to be killed quickly.
I’d be quite happy to donate my body to science as well.
My epitaph : “Work away boss, i’m long gone”.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:26 am
3
The comparison with animal euthanasia is a bit redundant twenty - rover doesn’t get a say in it.
Generally tho I’d be for voluntary euthanasia - each persons life is their own.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:31 am
4
It’s not that redundant in the sense that we make a decision to end the suffering of a creature whose quality of life is so bad that they would be better off dead.
Then you just need to walk into a nursing home or a hospice or a hospital to see that there are people in exactly the same situation. Often they’re so far gone that they don’t have a say in it either. Yet we let people suffer.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:35 am
5
I don’t agree with not allowing it. It’s an issue today especially, with all the focus on being miraculously and artificially kept alive through the wonders of modern medicine.
It’s a tough one though. I spoke to someone whose mother had wanted to die, and had asked her daughter to take her to (Switzerland?) to do it. Only one daughter took the responsibility, the others weren’t interested.
I think it’s a lot to ask - that one of your children be responsible for your death, no matter how ill you are. I know that would stay with me, all the time.
And I read an article about a woman with end stage breast cancer who went to die. Reading abou her saying goodbye to her three year old was gut wrenching. Even though there was no hope, and she was just dying a little bit sooner, avoiding agony and loss of dignity, I still found it really hard to… not accept, as it made sense. I don’t know, hard to handle.
I’m not disagreeing with you though. Though I don’t think everyone who can’t wipe their own arse wants to die. I’m sure plenty of people who are seriously incapacited still cling to and value their own lives. Different perspectives.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:36 am
6
If it was brought in, with the concerns of some people abusing the situation, who should make the call that it’s an option for consideration? Doctors already have God complexes, are they the right choice? Should it be something you put on your drivers licence like blood type and organ donation? Tick here if you want to “exit gracefully” (it was well put, I’m robbing it SuperG).
August 20th, 2008 at 9:39 am
7
I’m sure plenty of people who are seriously incapacited still cling to and value their own lives.
I don’t think anyone is trying to kill off people who don’t want to die!
But if people want to end their own suffering they should be allowed to do so.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:40 am
8
it’s a tough subject… i do agree that people should be given a choice though, if it’s clear that their mind is still healthy. my fiancée asked me to end it for him if he ever is incapacitated and can’t look after himself. i would do it for the ones i love if i knew they were suffering too much and that would be their choice. i’m sure it would be a hard thing to do and i’d probably never forget it, but it’s part of what we do for the ones we love.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:41 am
9
My great aunt died in the weekend. She was really cool, she used to say ‘when you come and see me and it looks like I am asleep, well I am not, I am travelling.’ (She would have been platinum card by now). But she was so over living and her heart just wouldn’t fucking stop beating. She just lay in a bed all day. It was miserable. She was miserable.
We didn’t want her to die for us, but we wanted her to die for her.
It just strikes me as weird - we’re highly evolved enough to keep people alive when they would otherwise die, but too dumb to work out that there are times that it just better to let them die.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:44 am
10
So you’re supporting involuntary euthanasia then twenty? I see your point but I would disagree - its a slippery slope when we start making judgement calls like that. It has to be a personal choice - something that was indicated to friends and family, or as MJ suggests an ‘exit graceully’ card.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:51 am
11
God, morgor, I wasn’t saying I thought anyone was suggesting ! Just that different people will have different standards of what is bearable and worthwhile life.
This is it, LK, with modern advances more people are being kept alive who would previously have just died - tiny preemie babies and sick elderly pople… and it creates both an unpleasant choice and the expectation that death is avoidabke, unacceptable.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:53 am
12
sorry, avoidable.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:53 am
13
I will leave instructions with those closest to me that if I ever get too sick to clean myself, wash myself, feed myself, wipe my arse and look back to check on the colour, texture and consistency of my own poo then I want to be let go. And by let go I mean euthanised.
You had better quit drinking then - or the next time Dave or some other chum calls round to check you are OK after a heavy week-end on the Absinthe spritzers they’ll go down the check list and call on Lucky - and then those fecking Dolphins Boggle mentioned will be unstoppable.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:00 am
14
Good point twenty, I suppose the common conception is that human existence is more sacred than “rovers” and therefore people feel a need to prolong life where possible. I do agree with said point though. If people want to die it should be their choice.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:10 am
15
When i lived in the UK, I made a “living will” which specifies that I wish to be left to die in certain medical circumstances. However I don’t know what the deal would be here in Ireland, whether that could be enforced.
I did it to remove uncertainty from my partner, family and friends so as not to let them be put in a position where it becomes a debate. They are my wishes and I wish them respected. I would be interested to hear what the deal would be in Ireland, whether I would need to be shipped back to the UK to be left to die.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:14 am
16
I would presume a will is a will, no? I mean, there’s nothing in Irish law about your wishes for no extraordinary measures being illegal or anything. I presume, that is, I don’t know for sure.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:28 am
17
well isn’t euthanasia illegal in Ireland no?
August 20th, 2008 at 10:32 am
18
Here’s what I found on living wills: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/health/legal-matters-and-health/advance-care-directives
This seems to say you can make one but it may be ignored because there is no legislation governing them. You also cannot appoint someone to make medical decisions for you in the event you’re incapable of making them yourself - which I presume means the doctors get to make all the decisions.
And you can get up to 14 years imprisonment for helping a loved one to die with dignity. Very civilised.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:34 am
19
Where there’s life there’s hope. Wouldn’t you be pissed off if you euthanised/murdered somebody and a month later they had a cure for their condition.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:38 am
20
Well, no extraordinary measures isn’t the same as euthenasia, morogor, surely?
I’m shocked you can’t appoint someone to make descisions for you - what’s up with that!
August 20th, 2008 at 10:44 am
21
Thanks Caro, looks like the girlfriend will have to put me in the back of the motor and drive me back to the UK. I wonder if you can get cigarette lighter adaptors for life support machines.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:46 am
22
“Where there’s life there’s hope.”
Unfortunately that statement is a bit arse. There are circumstances where there is no hope, there are circumstances when all you have is endless pain before you die. There are circumstances such as Mr Major described where your quality of life for you and your family is so poor there is no point in going on. There is a cracking documentary about the outfit in Switzerland who help out with Euthanasia. I am sorry, but a civilised society should would not let this happen.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:02 am
23
I totally agree with you, for a change. I’ve an uncle on deaths door at the minute. Cancer. He has 3 teenage kids. He’s desperate to live for the sake of his children but deep, deep down he’d rather not be alive in the condition he’s in. It’s truly gut wrenching to watch.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:06 am
24
Great post twenty, agree with you, your life is your life.
The discomfort a lot of people feel around this subject is due to being exposed the whole crappy notion of “The sanctity of life” where life is “precious” on its own merit, regardless of the quality of that life.
Life is only worth living, if its worth living. Just cos a few vital organs still function enough to keep you breathing etc, is not a “life”
August 20th, 2008 at 11:18 am
25
The Swiss company is called Dignitas, for anyone interested in reading more. The UKs first person to use them was a 74 yr old with motor neurone disease and they made a documentary about it. It was extremly moving and I find it hard to argue against offering people dignity in their death.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:25 am
26
I’m with Twenty on this one. I have a feeling that countries that would make it illegal or not to allow people to end their own lives are the ones where the old catholic ’sanctity of life’ ballocks is still festering inside their legal systems like an ancient Italian brain virus.
I won’t be looking up any legislation if I’m diagnosed with something like Motor Neurone Disease.
I’ll be on a plane to Switzerland after a couple of weeks in Amsterdam that would shame Keith Richards.
‘A couple of pints of your finest cask conditioned morphine, my good man,’ will be the order. ‘And shut that fuckin’ cuckoo clock off when I’m talking to ye, ye alpine hoor. Ahh put a head on it. And cobblers to the Pope. Your good health, gents.’
August 20th, 2008 at 11:46 am
27
Totally agree Twenty..My Mom says this all the time well when we talk about that stuff anyway
August 20th, 2008 at 11:47 am
28
I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment Twenty.
Small point though, if, as you say, it was “a beautiful summer’s day” why then did you have to “side-step short people with their eye popping umbrellas” - was there a sun shower ??
August 20th, 2008 at 11:50 am
29
Damien, if your second name is Rice she is referring to a different thing
August 20th, 2008 at 11:50 am
30
Well said Batty.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. One should rather arrive by skidding in sideways with a six-pack in one hand pack of Marlboro in the other, ones body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WooHoo !
August 20th, 2008 at 11:57 am
31
I sat with my grandmother for two nights after we pulled the plug so that she didn’t have to die alone and it was gut wrenching, but still the right thing to do. I think couples have been helping each other die for ages without minding legal precedent as well as physicians who make an extra dose available to help a loved one die. It may be the most generous thing you can do in the end.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
32
Did anyone mention the Diving bell and butterfly? Pretty cool film!
August 20th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
33
Its all that backclapping humanity bullshite “arent we great”
as billy hicks said “we’re a virus with shoes”
August 20th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
34
So you’re supporting involuntary euthanasia then twenty?
No, what I was trying to say is that the comparison with animals wasn’t redundant. I think I made it fairly clear that this it would be the choice of the sick person. If someone doesn’t say categorically that they want to end it then we have to leave them be.
I totally agree with you, for a change. I’ve an uncle on deaths door at the minute. Cancer. He has 3 teenage kids. He’s desperate to live for the sake of his children but deep, deep down he’d rather not be alive in the condition he’s in. It’s truly gut wrenching to watch.
Aye, been there. It’s terrible.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
35
After a long and hard and painful discussion among our family we decided to pull the plug on our terminally ill father. We drew straws and one of my sisters did the job, it took her several minutes to actually do it. Three days then passed and he was still hanging in there, it was amazing but tragic at the same time. On that third day we noticed it as a little chilly in the room so I went to turn on the heater only to see that it had been plugged out (three days ago).
August 20th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
36
Mossy says:
‘Well said Batty.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. One should rather arrive by skidding in sideways with a six-pack in one hand pack of Marlboro in the other, ones body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WooHoo !’
Agreed, Mossy. I can never understand the weirdness in people’s black little hearts about this subject. Our lifespans are much longer now than even 100 or 200 years ago. I’ve already had a full life and seen what I wanted to see and done (damn near) what I’ve wanted to do.
The thing is- why is everybody AFRAID of death? We’ve all been dead before. I was dead for millions of years up intil the mid-1960’s. I don’t remember a lot about it mind, but I’m certain it wasn’t painful!
The transition between states is the awkward bit- but sure we have drugs available now that would make that little jaunt feel like Disneyland on a warm day.
One single to oblivion, please, driver. Quick before the friggin Dail tax it.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
37
>It’s not that redundant in the sense that we make a decision to end the suffering of a creature whose quality of life is so bad that they would be better off dead.
That’s a bit optimistic. The majority of animals who are euthanised aren’t in that situation - they’re killed because they’re unwanted, because the owner doesn’t want to pay for treatment, because the owner isn’t arsed looking after a sick animal, or because they looked at a kid funny. You’re in fairly dodgy territory if you want to adopt those standards for humans.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
38
You’ve kind of missed the point there.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
39
Yeah I think he meant to say doggy territory.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
40
Emordino says;
‘The majority of animals who are euthanised aren’t in that situation - they’re killed because they’re unwanted, because the owner doesn’t want to pay for treatment, because the owner isn’t arsed looking after a sick animal, or because they looked at a kid funny. You’re in fairly dodgy territory if you want to adopt those standards for humans.’
I hear what you are saying, Emordino. But its not beyond the wit of humans to arrange sensible regulations around assisted suicide.
We are a much more sophisticated animal than most and there are various kinds of living death that humans would wish to avoid. I personally don’t want to dodge a coffin by hanging around with my shopping in a string bag for 10 or 15 years.
Old age is unfortunately a period when our society tells you you are no more use. I’d rather bow out gracefully under my own steam than be a burden on family or a source of prolonged stress to those around me.
Besides, if I’m wrong about the Long Sleep I can always haunt cunts I hate. There’s lots of them. Living cunts.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
41
> You’ve kind of missed the point there.
Quality rebuttal. But no, I didn’t: you claim there’s a valid comparison between human and animal euthanasia, I claim there is not. The two are vastly different. Saying “We treat sick animals better than we treat sick people” is nonsense, it’s just tabloid hand-wringing.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
42
kill them all….thats what I say, who wants to be walking along the street and suddenly come across a drooling bag of offal in a wheelchair…c’mon lets have some respect for the healthy
August 20th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
43
> I hear what you are saying, Emordino. But its not beyond the wit of humans to arrange sensible regulations around assisted suicide.
Indeed it isn’t. I’m all in favour of euthanasia.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
44
I’d prefer to die by being in a death or glory cavalry charge. I think that I’d live in technicolour in a short few minutes- more gloriously than anyone I’ve ever known. The Health and Safety cunts wouldn’t allow me to do that, though, as it might cause a traffic snarl-up in Kildare.
In fact, I’d like to charge at Heath & Safety cunts on a good horse with a sharp weapon in my hand. Dead, injured, Health & Safety cunts.
‘Heh’, as Twenty might well belch.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
45
There’s some cunts I would haunt. I’d tell them before I died. I’d write them a letter and tell them to expect a haunting in the future and that it could take any form and it could happen at any time but most likely when they are alone at night and they start to think about it. I’d leave them for a few years and then get them one night as they walk along a dark country road. I’d take the form of a talking dog warning them of the ghoul up ahead.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
46
> I hear what you are saying, Emordino. But its not beyond the wit of humans to arrange sensible regulations around assisted suicide.
>Indeed it isn’t. I’m all in favour of euthanasia.
Ah, but you haven’t heard my ’sensible regulations’. I meant ‘cunts’. All of them.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
47
What a bunch of miserable cunts you all are today. Let me know when you are ready Twenty. Just pay my airfare over to do the job. Or get Lucky. Hopefully before your next book comes out. Heh !
Once again, fuck off and die you sad fucks.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
48
Euthanasia is a tough one. Who’s to say that the final moments before death isn’t the time when our mind/souls finally make peace with the world in some, dream-like, moment of clarity just before the lights go out.
I’d hate someone to turn the lights off before I got to the top of the stairs to the Pearly Gates.
I could fall and hurt myself.
In saying that, I could be a cunt and procrastinate, not die for a number of years and cause much pain and heartache for my loved ones.
I’ll decide after lunch.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
49
Well thought out Holemaster.
Were you serious about the heater?
I think the issue of animal euthenasia v human euthenasia has to be discussed on two different levels.
Sure, people put their pets down to save themselves hassle and money.
But they also put them down because they don’t feel the pain and expense of drugs and operations etc is worth the uncomfortable and invalided life they would live if kept alive. That’s the analogy that’s relevant.
I have a friend who’s a vet who kept his sick 14 year old dog alive til the bitter end - and he did it for himself, not the dog.
He also encouraged us to keep our dog alive when he was really sick - so we spent a grand, put the dog through a lot, and put it down in the end. I won’t be doing that again. Obviously this is no longer on topic, we’re in doggy territory again here.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
50
No the heater thing was of course not true. Although my dad was sick for a while in hospital but died with all of us there and no life support was used. He’d had a good laugh at this, he had a great sense of humour. There is a mad story involving the burial of my parents which I might post about. I’d call it “Losing the Plot”.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
51
Jo says;
That’s terrible. I’d say it has more to do with the well-known ‘Messiah’ complex among doctors and medical people in general.
You tell someone they have power over life and death for long enough they start to believe it. Which explains arrogance among young doctors and facial syphilis in vets who keep dogs alive because they can. Facially-syphilitic medical cunts.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
52
Oh and he died of a Tuesday.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
53
And people who fail to quote properly and then put their own message in italics. Singular cunts.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
54
So, almost all posters here are in favour of voluntary euthanasia.
And I guess most would be for the decriminalisation of drug use.
And various other no-brainer obvious social changes / practices.
Yet the chances of getting anything done about it are slim to bugger all because politicians are much more keenly aware of special interest groups and general cranks than the majority verdict.
Democracy, eh?
August 20th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
55
HOlemaster, it did sound like a joke, but I thought it was better to be safe than sorry :)
Ah no, Batty, he’s extremely well meaning, and pro animal. And he’s saved lots of doggy lives when his boss just wouldn’t have bothered with treatment.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
56
I don’t know that we’re representative of the country though SG. And I’m not sure I’d trust Irish Euthenasia. You can see the potential for some horrible Father Ted type fuck ups.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
57
Youthenasia could be an answer to some social problems.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
58
Has anyone seen the South PArk where Cartman destroys Nanny 911 and Supernanny and his mother gets the dog whisperer guy from Oprah to sort him out? It’s brilliant.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
59
yep. hilarious.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
60
I’m in favour of it… my parents used to be always heavily against it but after witnessing a close relatives decline earlier this year, they’ve changed their tone somewhat.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
61
Seriously though, the problem with having that passed here is the Church. It would be considered a mortal sin to take the life of someone who is sick. The Bishops and Rome would rally their troops and oppose any change to the constitution. Not only that, the medical profession would probably oppose it too as it goes against their oath.
The government would probably make it legal to travel abroad to have it done, like abortion, and Irish solution to an Irish problem.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
62
Doctor; So Granny, you want us to pull the plug, do you?
Granny; That’s right Doctor.
Doctor; And why is that Granny?
Granny; Because I don’t want to be a burger on the state.
Doctor; You mean a ‘Burden’. Who told you that? -Sure you have another 5 years in you at least.
Granny; My Grandson told me. I’m sure he said burger. Or was it ‘Bargain’?
Doctor; Which Grandson is this? The one who’s getting married in September?
Granny; That’s right. He’s going to be moving into my house when I’m gone.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
63
It is a shame - been thinking along these lines myself lately. However, you touched on something that might be really useful. Since we also don’t have the death penalty, could we inject one of these “prisoner in your own body” diseases into heinous murderers and such? They would require some care but it wouldn’t have to be tender and they couldn’t make trouble.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
64
The majority of animals who are euthanised aren’t in that situation - they’re killed because they’re unwanted, because the owner doesn’t want to pay for treatment, because the owner isn’t arsed looking after a sick animal, or because they looked at a kid funny.
The majority of animals that are “euthanised” are in facted killed so that we might eat them.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
65
Didnt the Nazis murder countless mentally disabled and other ‘undesirables’ and call it euthenasia? They did this on the basis that an unproductive life is no life at all and these people were a burden on society.
I think society’s problem with assisted termination is “where do you draw the line?” What if you could make the decision for a person who was incapable of deciding themselves? What if one of those people was a Helen Keller or Stephen Hawking and you got rid of them simply because they were a burden?
Next stop, legalised murder.
I agree in principle to the majority of what’s been written in this thread but be assured, we will have opened the door on a decision that, somewhere down the line, some fucker will exploit to its logical and chilling limits.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
66
You can see the potential for some horrible Father Ted type fuck ups.
Like this
Chinnery rules!
August 20th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
67
The argument for euthanasia falls down everytime at the point of decision. Who could ever be entitled to make that decision? Can someone else argue against it? What if a wrong decision is made? Who’s gonna watch over the decision makers?
It’ll never happen.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
68
But again hooronahonda, we’re talking about a decision people make for themselves, not that someone else makes for them.
We’re not talking Arsenic and Old Lace
August 20th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
69
Quality rebuttal. But no, I didn’t: you claim there’s a valid comparison between human and animal euthanasia, I claim there is not. The two are vastly different. Saying “We treat sick animals better than we treat sick people” is nonsense, it’s just tabloid hand-wringing.
I didn’t say they were the same and it wasn’t a rebuttal. Of course there are thousands of animals put down because of cruelty or for other reasons. My point was that those people who own animals and who are responsible would not let their pet suffer. Yet we allow the people closest to us to die in pain and without dignity, even if they themselves decide they no longer want to live.
You can call it tabloid handwringing if you want but it’s a fact.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
70
You can, surely, MB. ‘I’m sick, I’m not going to get better. Before I die I will experience horrible suffering and loss of dignity. It will be expensive and upsetting for everyone, and I’d rather go now.’
I can’t see anyone but the individual concerned making the decision, isn’t that the point?
August 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
71
Cheers for the ‘League Of Gentlemen’ link maggot. We need a bit of light relief today.
Pity it just displays a ‘We’re sorry, but this video is no longer available’ message, but it’s the thought that counts.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
72
Try again - still working for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xOat__xdA&feature=related
I doubt if the establishment - Church and Medical - will ever allow it.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
73
What I’m saying Jo is that once you legalise any form of killing another human being we had better prepare ourselves to negotiate the moral minefield we have stepped into.
It might not be next year or the next fifty years but you can guarantee that somebody will create a loophole that permits euthanasia on the flimsiest of grounds.
The question is basically “Does the suffering of thousands outweigh one wrongful death and are we prepared to turn a blind eye?”
August 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
74
The whole problem is in the “assisted” - which means it needs the involvement of another person, who would technically be a murderer. People make decisions when they are well and they often change their minds - anyone I have ever known who was very ill has done everything to carry on living.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
75
The Swiss seem to have got round the legal element, and it seems to work well for those who choose to do it. I agree in The UK and Ireland it would be an almighty fuck up. I cannot imagine the HSE or the NHS getting the whole thing right, rather they would kill the wrong people time and time again. The church has no fucking part in this argument, because their ideals are outdated by about five centuries.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
76
I got a Dairy Milk from the vending machine. On it’s descent from it’s resting place to the getting hatch the paper wrapper bit fell off. I fitted it back on neatly, walked 30 feet back to my desk and removed it again. Why?
August 20th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
77
apostrophe overload?
August 20th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
78
SG! you have a…(sob)…vending machine????? You lucky, lucky bastard!
August 20th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
79
It would be great if you could go to an Assisted Suicide Vending Machine, wouldn’t it?
In goes a euro and a knife covered in Instant Anasthesia comes out and stabs you to death.
There’d be queues every Monday morning. Bound to be some twatnot try to dodge in at the top of the queue, though. And you could let them.
Instant problem, instant solution.
August 20th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
80
I have never seen such sober comments on Twenty’s blog as this article brought out. Who would have thought that so much compassion would show up here!
If you have a lot of money and would like to go happily, take a trip to Holland or southeast Asia and piss it away on dope, women, booze and good times. When you’re broke, go home and tell the relatives that they now have to take care of you; ha! the pillow goes over your face and that’s the end of you. In your case Twenty, tell Lucky that you’re going to have him whacked. Then you’re as good as gone.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
81
There’s a book called Tuesdays with Morrie which doesn’t argue against or about euthanasia. Its’ about that journey of diminishing power, and Mitch Albom puts a credible and sensitive spin on it. ( It’s a bit David Grayish and schmaltzy, hey, what can you do). But you never really know Twenty, sometimes it’s enough just to see the ones you love, just to see them, nothing else. That said, I don’t know how I’d cope personally.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
82
I’ve read that book, S&C. It is way over the top schmaltz but he does it well.
It would be great if you could go to an Assisted Suicide Vending Machine, wouldn’t it?
Like in Futurama. I think in years to come people will look back on Futurama as prophetic. Go to work in your sky tube thing, off yourself in a suicide booth.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
83
Red Links 21/08/08 : Alexia Golez says:
[...] has a powerful post on the right to die. I’d make the same decision as he [...]
August 21st, 2008 at 7:42 am
84
“That’s terrible. I’d say it has more to do with the well-known ‘Messiah’ complex among doctors and medical people in general.
You tell someone they have power over life and death for long enough they start to believe it. Which explains arrogance among young doctors and facial syphilis in vets who keep dogs alive because they can. Facially-syphilitic medical cunts.”
Batty, it’s people like you that make me glad I fled to Oz. Fucking hell, I’d almost forgotten how very much the Irish hate doctors.
No doctor that I know thinks they “have the power over life and death”. Neither here nor back at home. The fact is that doctors are trained to recognise when resuscitation is going to fail, be futile eventually or keep the person alive but in such distress with such poor quality of life that it would not be medically appropriate to do so. It’s a hard decision. It’s hard on us too. How could you think it’s not?
Back in Ireland I have had to keep the tears from my eyes when explaining this to shocked families at times, and once or twice have gone off and had a good cry somewhere in the middle of my illegal 36 hour shift. You feel almost guilty sometimes-it’s like it’s your fault their loved one just had a massive brain haemorrhage due to a brain metastasis from their terminal cancer. You can’t help them. You most certainly DON’T have the power over life and death-in spite of the fact that it’s supposed to be your JOB to keep people alive, you have to tell them that their loved one is dying and it would be futile to resuscitate them in the event of a cardiac arrest. Later on, you’ll probably be called to certify the same person dead, and you’ll have to look that family in the eye again as you tell them how sorry you are. It’s like getting punched in the gut sometimes. You think of your own husband, mother, father in that bed instead of the patient, and it just kills you that these things happen at all and there’s nothing anyone can do.
But sure, we’re all just arrogant fucking assholes really. We don’t bust our asses working illegal hours at the most physically and emotionally demanding job we can think of. We just goof off, laugh maniacally in a swivel chair while stroking a bald cat as we randomly condemn people to death. And play golf.
I’m so glad I left Ireland.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:42 pm
85
Anton’s Hat » Blog Archive » Why assisted suicide is logically flawed says:
[...] This started out as a comment on Twenty Majors blog post about how he wants the right to end his own life. [...]
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:38 am
86