Looks like it’s a NO
It appears that the Lisbon Treaty has been rejected by the people of Ireland.
What I think is really interesting is the fact a NO has won the day despite the lunatics that aligned themselves with that side of things. Sinn Fein – pack of cunts. As pointed out here, their involvement was more likely to make people vote YES than NO. The majority of people would hold no truck with the Shinners or the scaremongerers or right wing Catholic headcases.
It has been a complete failure on the part of the government and the main political parties to convince people that we should have voted YES for the Lisbon Treaty. That these extremists, which is what some of them are, have ended up on the winning side really highlights that.
So what now? Are we going to get raped by Brussels or what?
June 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Prepare yourself for a votefest. Twenty
You have had a precedent set on an earlier occasion, keep voting ’til you get it right!
Grimy
June 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
PS – First !!!!!!!
June 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
It has been a complete failure on the part of the government and the main political parties to convince people that we should have voted YES for the Lisbon Treaty. That these extremists, which is what some of them are, have ended up on the winning side really highlights that.
Now watch the government jump up and admit that.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
did they not say that it couldn’t go ahead if we didn’t ratify it?thats not what i’m hearing on the booming doommonger music on radio 1 at the minute.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Have you seen the comments on the RTE / Lisbon site?
http://tinyurl.com/6r4w96
Looks like the rest of Europe is very happy with the result.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Fucking brilliant.
Sometimes democracy doesn’t suck quite so much.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Can’t wait to see Cowen on the news!
June 13th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
and there was me looking forward to the prozzie,cocaine and abortion bonanza if the liars in ff got there way.maybe in the next round……
June 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Blame Fianna Fail and that Offaly cunt who replaced that Drumcondra cunt.
We the Irish are now seen as the biggest pack of Pikies in Europe. Good to rattle cages now and then though…
June 13th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
People who voted no are fucking idiots.
‘People didn’t understand it’. Well make it your fucking business to find out then you clueless cunts.
People should have the fucking vote taken off them.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
hey dealga,why don’t you take cowens cock out of your mouth and realise that we just spoke for a majority of europe who had no say.if 450 million people voted do you honestly think it would have went to the yes side?my arse.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
dealga, why don’t you get a baseball bat and go around smashing their heads in? How dare they not understand the thing you like to pretend made perfect sense to you?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Who the fuck knows? The outcome was probably always going to be the same, it’s just if we end up in the shit this time we have ourselves to blame rather than the government.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
And if all Europe had ended up in the shit, they won’t have us to blame.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
The rest of Europe are delighted. The people have spoken.
Just shows you how unrepresentative our government is, they did not reflect the wishes of the people AT ALL.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
“People who voted no are fucking idiots.”
I’m not an idiot.
Are you a Fianna Fail arse licker?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
It is a pity that the Yes people couldn’t get their point across better, but its always easier to run a No campaign against something like this.
Its hard to sex up and make interesting a treaty designed to help streamline political affairs, yet its easy to run a campaign warning against the dangers of vague or not-fully-explained ideas.
But at the same time, we shouldn’t have to be spoon fed. I have a slight issue with people who voted No because they weren’t told what it was. Go out and find out for yourself if no one will tell you.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Surely it’s just as easy to explain why it’s good.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
We the Irish are now seen as the biggest pack of Pikies in Europe.
No fucking change there.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
My father was just ranting about how it shows sinn fein have taken over the country.
Sinn Fein are taking credit for it too.
Hilarious.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
“I have studied EU law and think that any veto that the Irish Government would have regarding tax harmonisation would not be exercised and the government would roll in behind the bigger member states and allow tax harmonisation which would cost the country jobs in all sectors, including”
a cleverer man than me wrote this.but this was the main reason i voted no.i just thought that cowen would bend over and do whatever it took to stay in the cosy cartel.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
So what now?
Germany will invade Poland again amd Brian will blame you Twenty.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
there will be dancing in the streets of gelsenkherken tonight, and no doubt a few terrorist fist-jabs in Cavan…
June 13th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Considering the fuckwit that negotiated the treaty on our behalf is in the witness box at Mahon telling us that all the sterling he has came from winning on the horses and casual exchanges of bundles of banknotes with (now dead) businessmen, its no wonder it was voted down.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
The consequences of this No vote are indeed far reaching.
One of the most important facts that a majority of people have overlooked, or aren’t even aware about is that, I actually don’t give a feck. They are not going to scrape Ireland off the map of wurope are they?
June 13th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
There is intelligence about the Irish voter which was demonstrated here. It’s arrogant to ask that a 280 page document be decided by a yes or no.
Nobody won here and anybody masquerading as if they did win is bogus and devoid of credibility.
If you want an outcome, it was a victory for democracy.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
They gave us enough EU-rope.
We hung ourselves.
A great day for Ireland!
June 13th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
No we didn’t, we’re fucking heros man!
June 13th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
That’s the most ridiculous post you’ve ever put up Twenty. Fucknig hell mate, I think the no vote just shows that Irish people will make decisions that they want to. A majority of Europeans would vote no if given the chance. Got nothing to do with Sinn Fein.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Twenty,
You’re always banging on about rape, gnu rape, bear rape, etc now euro rape. Do you think you’ve a bit of an unhealthy obsession about being raped and committing rape!
June 13th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I see the press are whinging. At least we got a chance to have our say. Europe ignored the wishes of the majority of French and Dutch voters. I wonder how long it’s going to take for them to try again.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Those Sinn Fein shits are the hardest part. I wished Mary Lou would disappear up her own hole.
That they will now pitch this as some sort of success for themselves will grate like a badgers cunt.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I reckon Sinn Féin actually damaged the NO vote. More people would be inclined to vote against the Shinners than with them.
This was a victory for Europeans, most of whom never got a chance to have their say…
…and defeat for all the sheep who like having their minds made up for them.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
“I wished Mary Lou would disappear up her own hole.”
She did and came back out, hence the tan.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
The REALLY bad thing about all this is that the whole world is going to see what Brian Cowen looks like.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
That’s the most ridiculous post you’ve ever put up Twenty. Fucknig hell mate, I think the no vote just shows that Irish people will make decisions that they want to. A majority of Europeans would vote no if given the chance. Got nothing to do with Sinn Fein.
That’s what I was saying.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
heh
June 13th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
http://shadowsatsunset.blogspot.com/2008/06/oh-no.html
June 13th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Was it? Oh right. Sorry about that.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Maybe it wasn’t clear. I was just saying Sinn Fein and other loons being on the NO side didn’t stop people voting NO.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
[...] Looks like it?s a NO » Twenty Major [...]
June 13th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Lazlo if the bloke you’re quoting is cleverer than you then you’re some fucking idiot. And did the majority of Europe include you in some sort of mass email to tell you what they’d do, yeah?
All this shite about the French and Dutch. They voted ‘no’ to the constitution to keep the Turks out, you clueless fuckers.
Going on about Cowen and Fianna Fail just shows you’re in the same boat of parochial cunts that votes the likes of Lowry and Flynn in every time. It’s got nothing to do with FF. The ironing is delicious.
June 13th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
They’ll probably fuck us out of the Ryder Cup for this.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
This comment is on RTE’s Lisbon comment site, from Andrew in Wicklow:
“A sad vote by a selfish people who took as much as they could from Europe. It is also a sad statement on Irish democracy that half the country didn’t even get off the couch to vote. Have they no eyes to see the benefits which the European Union has brought to this country since 1972?”
If the EU want to know why the Irish voted No, it was because of stuff like that. Too many people told us to remember everything the EU has done for us – we got lots of money, so vote yes. To follow this reason to its logical conclusion, if the EU wanted to declare war on New Zealand tomorrow, we’d have to support it, because, remember, we got lots of money.
It’s talking down to us in the worst possible way. They never appreciated that people could be Pro-Europe and still vote no.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
looks like the big countries will have to go back to the old way of building their empires.lets hope its the french that invades us this time,even the spanish wouldn’t be too bad.anyone else got a preference
June 13th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Guy I work with reckons its been a bad 24 hours for the Germans – beaten in the football, & now their plan to take over Europe by more subtle ways than in 1914 & 1939 has been (temporarily) scuppered.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Cool new look on your website, MB.
Comments still don’t work though, which is why I’ve to praise you via a third party.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I think that we should build a wall around Dun Laoghaire Rathdown and fly supplies in. Let’s call it “the Pale II”
June 13th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
When deciding whether or not to concede large chunks of a nation’s sovereignity, the vote should go to the people, no question. Ireland’s lucky its constitution allows for that. Pity all the poor sods all over Europe whose politicians did it for them.
Sniffly’s right – this isn’t a matter of winning or losing. The fact that Ireland reserves the right to vote on this stuff speaks of a superior system than those of its European neighbours.
The flaw was the document itself. The content was too broad making votes for are against so non-specific that noone really can say what about the treaty didn’t “take” in Ireland. Brussels are already working on that mind you.
Good democracy depends on an informed, engaged electorate. In this case, the information provided was too muc for a single yes/no vote, and in such dense, bureaucratic language that noone could understand it. It’s a pity the turnout wasn’t bigger either. If I was French or Swedish or whatever I’d be less upset at the decision – although perhaps they’d agree – and more upset that on something that affects nearly 500 million of people, less than 50% of the only eligible citizen-voters in the whole EU showed up.
Apathy is all over Western democracies – what’s the matter with us? Democracy’s not perfect but it’s better than the alternatives.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
It wasn’t EU money you got, it was taxpayers money from the poor fuckers in other parts of Europe who didn’t even get a vote…… not that we begrudge you the money after all there’s no one quite as proficient at pissing it up the wall.
Having said that, thank you Irish voters…. thank you
June 13th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
So, anyone else want to bet on when we’re going to have a second referendum on this?
“Nice 2″ anyone?
June 13th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
That’s the point though Catholic – I thought a no vote would force them to clarify, run a better campaign – but wih Nice it was easy to ammend points about neutrality for Ireland.
This is an attempt to iron out a compromise that will fit 27 countries into a plan initially envisaged for 15. It’s not possible to tidy it up any further. It doesn’t get any better or more comprehensible than this.
So the no vote means that enormous amounts of time and money have been wasted.
This was a friend’s outline of it – I’ll be intersested to see if anyone counters it.
She thinks the only way forward from a no vote was for Ireland to leave the EU.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Jo, if we left the EU… Just a minor question.
Do you reckon our currency change from the Euro?
June 13th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Andrew from Wicklow is a cunt and I will find him on this weekend and tell him so
June 13th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Interesting thought – if Ireland and the UK left the EU it would be natural for the two to merge, no ?
June 13th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
oh for fuck sake. I thought this would be one place where sanity might rule. Well done No voters. Well what did you do you smug fucks? You dont know, do you.
Great work!
June 13th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
it’s all a bit overdramatic isn’t it.
June 13th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Maggot. Didn’t work the last time as I recall.
June 13th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Worked bloody well Alan. Would you like to return to a feudal gaelic culture with slavery ?
June 13th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Yes!
June 13th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
But only if I have the slaves. Muscular, red haired ones, with tattoos.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Sinn Fein, Youth Defence, far right and left lunitics,Rupert Murdock and that cunt from Tuam with his hidden adgenda. People who vote have a responsabilty to find out what they are voting on. People who voted no either because they did not understand it or as some kind of unrelated protest vote are ,as comment 10 said, idiots. its sad that we have become so cynical that we are ready to believe this shower with their half truths and lies, over practally all our elected representives and many respected journilists,econimists,constiteinal lawyers etc..There is probably going to be repercussions on this that were all going to have to live with.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
fuck sakes my spelling/grammer/punication is dreadfull,just read over that and it sound a bit pious,sorry but
just a bit annoyed because im meeting no voters all day and still havent heard a sound reason for their choice.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Yep, I voted yes because I had that conversation with someone.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
OK Wax, I’ll give it a go;
I voted NO because the language used in the treaty was too ambiguous in too many areas. It was farcical listening to our ‘leaders’ telling us what they wanted us to believe it meant, when on a lot of occassions they were forced to admit they hadn’t even read it themselves.
But most of all, my reason for voting NO was because the potential damage to the country was smaller, and more importantly, reversible. It can be worked on and fixed, despite Biffo’s claim of ‘No plan B’.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Maybe the voters are sick and tired of the gangster political crowd telling them blatent lies and feathering their own nests. Well done Irish voyers.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Maybe voters don’t want the decisions of their country left solely in the hands of euroweenies in Brussels?
June 13th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Lord Elpus – the other side of the coin – Surely this No vote strengthens the Status Quo of Ireland’s (rotten)local politics ?
June 13th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
What are we like? Everytime we get a bit of success, we carp and moan about the very thing that brought about the success. In ths case the EU.
Of course this time we did more that just moan we told them to fuck off.
But atleast we have the likes of Patricia Mc Kenna and the Shinners to show us the way. So we’re grand then.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
you’r some stoner mb
June 13th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
JR, it wasn’t a vote for a thank you card
June 13th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
we have the likes of Patricia Mc Kenna and the Shinners to show us the way
That’s a ridiculous thing to say. The Shinners are as inconsequential today as they were yesterday, and will be tomorrow.
Yes, it’s disturbing that they were right for once, when the government and opposition were wrong.
And we didn’t tell the EU to fuck off. We told them that we weren’t here to bend over and be fucked by them.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
those who voted the way they were told to presume the same of everyone elso.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Monkey Balls – what was the treaty about ? Taking power away from local politicians – and what has happened ? The people moaning about what cunts FF are have left power in FF hands.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
you’r some stoner mb
Bloody right I am. I’m also a speller, with a knack for punctuation.
Oh, and I’m a bit of a pisshead too.
-But I still reckon I understood the Treaty better than our so-called ‘leaders’.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
maggot, those ‘local politicians’ were elected. The idea of taking power away from them and giving it to some faceless beuraucrat who has never even stepped foot in the country is just plain stupid.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
maggot, those ‘local politicians’ were elected.
Elected cunts and crooks. Ahern, Harney and Haughey, quality choices all! The faceless bureaucrat could hardly be much worse, could he ?
Those criticising local politics cannot have it both ways.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
maggot, i thought that this wasn’t about handing over direct power?
June 13th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
SG – the objection was to diminution of sovereignty – i.e taking power away from Cunts like Sinn Féin TDs CaoimhghÃn Ó Caoláin, Martin Ferris, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Arthur Morgan and Seán Crowe.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
power? hardly
June 13th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
That is what sovereignty is about SG
June 14th, 2008 at 12:04 am
mm
June 14th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I see your point, maggot, but even the shittiest politician (and a big hello to our collection of shitheads here) are better than some unelected
June 14th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Sinn Féin have no power to take away from them.
FÃanna Fail have power, and it can be taken away.
An unelected beuraucrat in Brussels could potentially wreak havoc on our nation, and we wouldn’t even know who to blame.
Forget about Sinn Féin. No right-minded person gives a fuck about them. It’s not a victory for them, but for common sense.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:08 am
…and democracy!
June 14th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Sorry, hit some button there that sent sent my post before I was finished, but actually it’s fairly OK as it is.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:13 am
It’s beautiful Tinman18!
The short ones are always th
June 14th, 2008 at 12:15 am
i agr
June 14th, 2008 at 12:19 am
That’s what I wa
June 14th, 2008 at 12:23 am
exac
June 14th, 2008 at 12:24 am
An unelected beuraucrat in Brussels could potentially wreak havoc on our nation, and we wouldn’t even know who to blame.
That’s bollix – it’s the EU and it’s unelected bureacrats that has done Ireland so proud.
I merely used SF to give more examples of what fine “known Faces” have been elected.
Taking power out of the hands of elected cunts in Ireland – both sides of the border – no bad thing.
But again – if folks trust these elected FF politicians why didn’t they take their advice and vote yes ?
You say that FF could be chucked out ? Fuck me, even after Haughey and Ahern, they are still in power.
This looks to me like Irish Xenophobia and a vote against Johnny Dago. And I reckon in te future if things get tough Ieland won’t be able to expect the same east treatment from the EU.
I’m glad you see what I’m getting at Tinman – but I don’t think being elected means a person is trustworthy – after all Adolf was elected.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:29 am
“but I don’t think being elected means a person is trustworthy – after all Adolf was elected.”
Yep, and all he wanted was total control over every european country and their people too.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Yep, and all he wanted was total control over every european country and their people too.
Incorrect. The EU wants far less !
But at the end of the day Ireland has done amazingly well under the EU’s unelected bureaucrats.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Fair enough mb, i know im not an english teacher but thats hardly relevent is it? th e st0ner comment was just a slag ,I ocassinaly take the od joint/line/pill.Im just think the mojority have got it wrong this time. Its true the language used is probably ambigous,but do you not think that is to be expected with 27 different countries negotating with their own intrests conditionsand languages.I dont know if you have read the treaty . i genuinely tried but couldent really understand all of it, it refeers to a lot of other previous documents,and i expect you would need a good understanding of these to fully understand it.I think its foolish to vote no based soley on ambigous language and the fact that cowan and mc creavy havent read if fully. Our goverment is no different than others, in that it employs experts to enterpet these documents and their possable results.why Do you think that all political parties in this country are united behind this issue.you say it can be worked on and fixed, be clear mb , what issuus need to be addressed ?, what do we ask for? , none of the no side seem to be sure, except for the usual sound bites and shite talk.I expect you have the answers on the main issues that the no camp have concintrated on, Netrulaty,Corporation tax,Aboration,Eutinasia,Comissioner,Defence,Voting rights,vito.I dont expect you do MB ,there is only interpretation and ,on this issue,im more inclined to believe the yes side.I enjoy your comments on this site mb also your own blog, but your very wrong on this.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:42 am
Right right, they gave us all the furs and diamonds we wanted, now we just got otobend over and let them take us up the ass as they see fit.
Bollocks. This is a small country, with ambition and talent and a culture and a history. We’re not French/belgium? Spanish or German or anyone other than who we are, and as such we should retain our ability to decide-as democratically we have done-how to govern ourselves as we see fit. We are still European, but as a nation we can still can self determine.
Can’t you see if we hand over our rights to an unelected governing body that we sell our souls to the wind?
June 14th, 2008 at 12:42 am
At the end of the day maggot, are you suggesting we trust those who couldn’t come up an unambiguous treaty after six years?
Was it their incompetance, or had they a hidden agenda?
Either way, they can stick it up their hole.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Shorter me, what MB said.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:56 am
At the end of the day MB I’m reminding people that the faceless bureacrats of the EU have worked miracles for Ireland – and pointing out all the contradictions inherent in the comments here.
FMC – you already sold your souls to the EU. There’s no going back. Your sovereignty isn’t worth a damn.
This is a small country, with ambition and talent and a culture and a history.
and that would have sunk like a stone without the EU.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Its declan ganley with the hidden agenda lads. who knows anything about this fucker? really whats he about, nothing in his past would seem to indicate he would be intrested in any issue that is hasent something to gain personally. why is he so prominent all of a sudden, why wont he anser questions about this information he has on secret military breafs and politations who are sympithac to his position. Why was he allowed to feed this shite to the media withouy any proof?
June 14th, 2008 at 1:11 am
Again, my english is terrable, left school early you see, i dont think that should affect my argument though.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:23 am
The Referendum was about the Treaty, not a popularity contest for those standing for or against it.
I didn’t get swayed one way or the other by anyone or any organisation. Don’t you think attributing success to the likes of Sinn Féin or Libertas is only playing into their hands and swelling their heads? It’s unfortunate that they’re the ones out celebrating tonight, but you know the old saying, ‘Every dog has his day’.
Just get over it and be thankful that we’ve done our fellow Europeans proud.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:37 am
I reckon if you change the word power to accountability then it sharpens the focus of the whole thing. The question becomes: do you want Irish politicians – who you know and have the ability to scrutinize, and over whom you still retain a modicum of power through national elections – to be accountable to you for the decisions made affecting the country? Or when stuff goes wrong – it’s bound to, it’s life – do you want accountability rest with someone you don’t know, someone you’ve never known, someone you can’t even unearth in the bureaucratic mess that is Brussels? Someone who might be responsible to the department of agriculture or the department of rural development, but noone’s quite sure, and anyway the agricultural comissioner is saying Oh no no no – this is a problem of the transport comissioner?
June 14th, 2008 at 1:47 am
Considering the local politicians are crooks and cunts and have been since the WOI, isn’t it worth trying a change?
And how is your scenario different from the local buck passing and incompetence such as happens in the health service ? Nobody has been held to account for that – and the reality is that you are stuck with FF and FG – and thus the modicum of power through national elections is meaningless.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:03 am
Considering the local politicians are crooks and cunts and have been since the WOI, isn’t it worth trying a change?
Why not give it a snappy title while you’re at it? Try ‘Foreign Rule’.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:06 am
That still dosent explain your choise to vote no mb.your argument is very vague , idont mean to be pushy can you explain cleary why you voted no? on a point by point bayses. the comminisioner issue for instance, thats an easy one and would probably have been changed anywhay due to germanys stance. but really why ? i would jost like to engage someone what knows what there talking about and has no real adjenda.What is wrong with the treaty? please explain .Again without soundbites.YOU CANT.Arragence or perceived arragence on the goverments part is not a reason to vote no.This is or could potentaly be a very serious issue for this country,does anyone else reconise this, why the fuck would they think the goverment is trying to trick them?what would be the point?not just the goverment but all partys. I just cant get my head around this one. im very intrested if any no voters could explain their choice.please explain in terms of yhe issues.these posts has been by longest in three years of reading your blog twenty,normally i dont comment on any blog i read ,but i feel strongly about this and am really getting fucked off listining to people confusing ther dissapointment with whatever with all our futures.If nothing else comes of this vote ,i would like to think that in future voters will engage and understand with the issues at stake and not confuse the issue with politations or unemployment,health service, house prices, roads,fucking broadband or any other nonrelated shite.ha ha i sound like nonny. Im going to bed
June 14th, 2008 at 2:09 am
‘Foreign Rule’.
And wasn’t local rule under FF and the church wonderful before the EU MB – pine for those days ? Ireland was a haven of wealth, tolerance and freedom before those faceless bureaucrats started to interfere.
I love xenophobia – christ, you loved the foreigners when the money was pouring in.
Ungreatful cunts.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:26 am
maggot, will you please stop trying to bring totally non-related issues into the argument. It has nothing to do with Sinn Féin support for a No vote, and there’s no evidence of any xenophobia. On the contrary, I’d say we did ALL Europeans a favour.
It was a bad treaty, with too many vague points that were open to interpretation. Yes, there were some good points, but we were presented with an opportunity to take them all or nothing.
I could go on, bu
June 14th, 2008 at 2:36 am
mb i tink your still talking shite , how can you say that other people are talking about other isues avoiding the questions.why dont you admit that you were possably wrong to vote no
June 14th, 2008 at 3:05 am
i am going to bed now but reading back on comments i think i should qualify myself to talk such shite . im 33 yr male withh family 2 kids im from west working clas now self employed from city now living in country. im normal guy who i think understands this treaty as good as any normal person could be expexted to.im not elitist or d4 or any of that shite.i urge everyone else that if second vote comes ,vote on isseus,jees im pissed now.
June 14th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Another second vote?
Now I know you’re just takin’ the piss.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:09 am
The No campaign poster will come true
They won’t hear us
They won’t see us
They wont listen to us
June 14th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Wow, the great unwashed said no……….like the great unwashed down under when they voted to keep Lizzie as Queen of Australia and threw out the idea of us becoming a republic………I blame the mothers for not edumecating the kids…….or maybe the Irish want to have at least 100 years of self rule before they hand over power to the shower of cunts who are currently running Europe!!
June 14th, 2008 at 8:02 am
Roy , do you know , that poster you are speaking about was the inspiration of a far right group from austria, even libertas disowened them.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:10 am
im not taking the piss mb. no one seems to know what way this is going to go yet, a second vote is possable, are you going to addresss the points i put to you. im sure you cant. Is this countrys european future going to de decided by uninformed clowns like you? seems so..
June 14th, 2008 at 8:35 am
It does seem to me that you can’t draw up legislation like that using clear and easy to understand language. It has to be complicated.
I think however, that the commission should have made more effort to do an easy to understand overview of the main points and the changes we’d experience. Also an unbiased summary of the yes and no arguments. As everyone pointed out, there weren’t really any good yes or no arguments, just why we shouldn’t vote no or shouldn’t vote yes.
wax, you’re making good points. All this ‘bend over’ language is emotional and rousing, but translates into nothing concrete at the end of the day.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:30 am
The constitution could have been written in simple language but if you google around a bit you will find that it was deliberately made confusing. The good people of Ireland were clever enough to spot this and spoiled the plan. People do not vote NO because ‘they don’t understand’ quite the opposite they DO understand…. anyone making a pitch in complicated legalistic language where the same thing could be made simple to understand is up to no good.
If the UK get a vote they will make you all seem europhile by comparison. We have all had enough of the brussels bullying and bullshit…… it’s even worse here, we are not getting boots full of euros in bribes…. we are having to pay ( dearly ) for it.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:39 am
1st thing to remember, you did not vote against Europe, just this treaty as the Yes camp will have the world believe.
Corporation Tax: The clause specifies that EU members local taxes are protected, and are determined by the member states government. This could backfire, France and Germany tabled a motion 18 months ago to set a destination tax on goods and services coming from countries with lower corp tax, by this they will tax all imported goods and services at their own tax rate. This would severely hamper competetiveness.
Representation: losing your commissioner has a bigger affect than you think, Ireland is a V Small country, and under the new regime the larger countries have a much larger vote. Losing represntation for five years would potentially damage your influence in Europe
The automatic veto on WTO deals is replaced by an ambiguous clause (Article 188c, 4(b)) which would be difficult to enable. All the Yes camp blatantly LIED about this.
Each clause is delibertley ambigous and open to interpreation , I could go on and on about each clause in the document.
For the YES voters who are feeling pissed off, deal with it. The people have decided, you live in a democracy which is more than the UK can say.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:41 am
It’s early forgive the spelling, and I have just found out that fucking Damien Rice is supporting Laughing Lenny tonight…fuckity fuck
June 14th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Get there late…
June 14th, 2008 at 9:48 am
I hope the time has come that the citizens of Europe are actually being asked what to do about the EU. Ireland has been the only country that had a referendum on this treaty. The rest of Europe was just too damn scared that they only wanted their parliaments to vote on this. (having the Dutch and French in the back of their heads)
Europe has become less democratic and will be less democratic if the treaty was to go ahead. Now it’s time for citizen groups all over Europe to stand up and demand a total European referendum on this.
I’m happy with Europe. As an Expat I have the ability to work here without any problems. But this treaty takes away power from the European Parliament and gives more power to the European Commission. The EC can actually ignore the EP’s voting on some matters. As the people of Europe are only allowed to vote for the EP we will have less and less to say about Europe if this treaty was to go ahead. Although they try to create a balance between swifter procedures, the other end of the scale meant there would be less democracy.
Let Europe rethink this treaty and actually start asking Europeans what they think not just our governments.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Well, I hope all that’s right. It sounds good – my problem is that I’m swayed by whatever conivncing arguments I read by either side.
Damien Rice PP? Try him, you just might like him…
June 14th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Although he’s British and it’s about the constitution, he has a point!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YWSYMpuCFaQ
and: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZzqnUdckMHc
June 14th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Many thanks to the Irish for being the voice of millions of EU citizens who voices were shut down!
Luis Sarmento
Porto, Portugal
June 14th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Jo, you can like who you want but I cannot stand idly by and allow you to encourage people to like Damien Rice on this blog.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Must be her ‘ormones Twenty.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:33 am
If only we’d had the Damien Rice treaty – nobody would be complaining about a no vote then.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
great post daniel.
wax listen to that and tell me the no vote don’t know what they’re talking about.
and why can’t we have competent government officials who can speak like that?who have we got.willie o fuckin’ dee.jesus wept
June 14th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
According to today’s Indy, we can look forward to another vote on this treaty. Ireland will vote until they get it right.
“(Cowan)said now was a time to reflect and listen to advice, saying he was not ruling out another re-run of the proposal, as happened with the Nice 2 campaign in 2002.
“I am not ruling anything in or out, up or down,” a tired-looking Mr Cowen said on television. “I am going to have to reflect on what it is that’s happened in the last 24 hours.”
Mr Cowen said he believed people had voted ‘No’ for a myriad of reasons, although some of the matters were extraneous to the treaty, he claimed.
“I have not succeeded in this case in winning over a majority of people,” he said, when pressed about what it meant for his own political credibility, having previously insisted that passage of the treaty was in Ireland’s vital national interest.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I’d never heard of Damien Rice until I started reading this blog. Since then, in a moment of sheer stupidity, I downloaded a collection of all his videos, albums, singles and a big heap of bootlegs. (1.12GBs in total)
I listened to about 25 secs of one of the songs.
Does anyone out there want a copy, before I delete the whole lot?
Jo?
June 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
See what I mean folks – the weakness of democracy – someone who downloaded the complete works of Damien Rice gets a vote ?
Crazy.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I only did it to annoy some people, but it totally backfired. I didn’t listen to it.
I’d like to second what Lazlo says in #127. Post #122 from Daniel is the best I’ve ever seen regarding this Treaty. If you haven’t watched both of the videos contained in it, watch them now.
Thank you Daniel.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Bad enough to have done it MB, but to broadcast that you did it ?
Will the boss ban you ?
June 14th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I didn’t put a single cent in Mr. Rice’s pocket, and I’m now attempting to remove money from it by offering copies of the offending article to anyone who wants it.
I think the boss will want to kiss me.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I think the boss will want to kiss me.
Scary stuff!
June 14th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
It only gets scary if I let him.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Johnny5 says you aren’t fussy! Claims he snogged you.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I don’t usually get involved in Ireland’s politics, so tell me, who is that ugly fucker who looks like a lardarse version that comedian, the “it’s the way I tell ‘em” bloke Frank Carson ?
He was banging on about the vote…. is he important or something ?
June 14th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
That’s just the Taoiseach, and no, he’s not important.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
maggot, Johnny5 didn’t snog me – I snogged him!
He was unconcious at the time, (2 Babychams), so there’s no way he knew it was me. (Unless he was able to compare the bite-marks on his arse to my dental records.)
June 14th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Twenty,
No courese they won’t rape you, just carry on as usual and ignore you. It’s what they do.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
MB did you download Damien Rice FLAC files? no way has he over a gig.
can’t stand FLAC files, all huge and flawless and huge… think they’re so great.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
B’dum B’dum, no, no FLACs. Here’s a listing;
2002 Live On KCRW
2002 O
2004 Live At Outremont Theatre, Montreal
2006 9
2007 Live At Fingerprints
2007 Live At Orpheum Theatre,Boston
Live From The Union Chapel
Singles, B- Sides, Rares, etc
Video s
Interested? I won’t delete them until tomorrow morning.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
For all you DR fans out there;
If you’re interested in completing your collection of suicide-inducing drivel, I could upload your missing bits onto some place like MediaShare.
You get your shit music, DR gets nothing.
Mission accomplished.
monkeybawl@gmail.com (I won’t tell anyone!)
June 14th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
and why can’t we have competent government officials who can speak like that?who have we got.willie o fuckin’ dee.jesus wept
We did at one point, but unfortunately Joe Higgins didn’t get back in.
June 14th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Messed up my link there!
June 14th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
“And why can’t we have competent government officials who can speak like that?who have we got.willie o fuckin’ dee.jesus wept”
Because ours are gangsters and don’t give a fuck about the electorate.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
The most demanding and thankless offspring of the EU has’ said no ‘to the Treaty of Lisbon and it paralyses the European mechanism. I cry in my corner while on a Dutch Internet unprecedented jubilation reigns. According to the responses from Europe and Brussels-haters in the Netherlands has the brave Ireland carried out a heroic, democracy a service and the Brussels fascism (real, here and there to read!) Is stopped.
This irrational distaste for an entity that, despite all its imperfections, our prosperity, welfare and peace has brought, remains surprised me. It’s the Irish ‘no’ nothing heroic, just a poor lack of realism. In the course of the nineteenth century ran the (beautiful) island empty. Emigration seemed to many the only way to escape from a country that its own residents could not feed. Everything was better than poverty and hunger suffered by vaderlandse soil. The population slonk of 7 or 8 million to a paltry 3 million. When Ireland was a member of the EEC in 1973 was still the poorest country in Western Europe.
The story is familiar: after 35 years of membership and a sloppy 60 billion euros in European aid and subsidies, Ireland is one of the most prosperous countries in the world. This status was the land of the ‘no’ on its own strength can never achieve. It happened thanks to the concerted efforts of the European partners and their wonderful momentum of solidarity. Now the Irish rich and volgevreten, they obviously have every right to bite the hand that once fed them. Opportunisten have always been. Yes, but I already hear, you can not criticise European institutions or convention, because you’re ever heavily subsidized? Yes, but if I no ‘campaign in Ireland overzie, this seems in part from fear, protectionism and sometimes lies to be built.
The most ridiculous arguments during the campaign by the ‘no’ camp argued. Thus, the Treaty of Lisbon the detention of children over three years, forcing Ireland to Participate in wars and help legalize abortion. The Irish Labour leader Eamon Gilmore called it ‘no’ campaign ‘hysterical’, based on unfounded allegations according to which the treaty “our abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage will bring.” Step than from the EU but equal, I would say, and no more stop hand. And for all those Dutch people who agitated yesterday feestvierden: ga please cooperate with those ‘enlightened’ Irish begin a new union and try to get the French (who, like the Dutch voted against the European Constitution) to get. A Europe of different speeds is perhaps the solution. Then it may seek new union of its three cheerful snail’s pace.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
trouw,
The people of Ireland and the UK do not need lectures from continentals about how to behave. Like the people of the UK many of the Irish were “in Europe” in 1944 and 1945, before you were born ?, to keep YOUR country free, and paid a heavy price for it, if some money comes back, perhaps it is owed.
Europe is made up of recent states and countries, The UK and Ireland go back a long way in history as nations and prefer to stay that way, Independent.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Ireland only goes back as a republic less than a hunded years.
Ireland – as a country – stayed Neutral.
Trouw is right.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
It’s the Irish ‘no’ nothing heroic, just a poor lack of realism. In the course of the nineteenth century ran the (beautiful) island empty. Emigration seemed to many the only way to escape from a country that its own residents could not feed. Everything was better than poverty and hunger suffered by vaderlandse soil. The population slonk of 7 or 8 million to a paltry 3 million.
What an utter cunt.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Oo, let’s have a fight about the famine! While the Irish were dying of hunger, corn grown here was still being exported to Britain…
I love ‘The population slonk of’. Sounds like one of Twenty’d funny verbs.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
The basics of his post are right though – Ireland did bloody well out of the EU.
And the Netherlands has been around a lot longer than The Republic – which did sit on the fence during WWII. Sure plenty of brave men and women served as individuals during the war – and were treated like shit by Dublin when they got home.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
While the Irish were dying of hunger, corn grown here was still being exported to Britain…
God Jo, not that old nonsense again.
It’s shinner propaganda.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Well, I hope so. I have it second hand, my mother read it in a book about the Famine, might have been The Great Hunger? About the people in England who were actually trying to help, how soul destroying it was from them.
I reckon the famine is the best marketing tool Republicans could ever have, it’s so emotive. It can turn anyone into a nationalist in seconds.
That and Walter Macken.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
The reality was that Ireland became a net food importer from being a net food exporter during the Famine. God help us from the history of Uris and Macken, entertaining though they might be to read.
That’s not to diminish the awfulness of events. But there is a lot more to it than
the nationalist propaganda.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Still, you can see why it’s tempting.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
maggot, I think of the government of a country and its people as two separate entities. The government stayed out but many of the people joined in. In the early 19th Century in England there was great hunger in rural areas and many emigrated to escape the conditions, it is probably a case of rich/poor rather than English/Irish. The poor English were treated like crap by the rich English just as the poor Irish were.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Yep – the big bad brits are an easy target!
trouw was confusing it with emigration in the 20th century.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
The government stayed out but many of the people joined in.
and were treated like shit when they got back Haddock.
I agree with what you say about the 19th century. Nobody comes out well from that time – merchants profiteered, the Church did very little, some of the worst exloiters were the Irish themselves.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:27 am
trouw, you didn’t by any chance play a part in wording the Lisbon Treaty, did you?
June 15th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Sorry, meant to include a quote;
Step than from the EU but equal, I would say, and no more stop hand. And for all those Dutch people who agitated yesterday feestvierden: ga please cooperate with those ‘enlightened’ Irish begin a new union and try to get the French (who, like the Dutch voted against the European Constitution) to get.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I thought he did pretty well, considering. I couldn’t say it in French, and I learned that for six years.
June 15th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Same in the UK with the BNP. Our main two parties are so fucking shite that these racist filth are starting to gain votes off the back of it.
June 15th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
“While the Irish were dying of hunger, corn grown here was still being exported to Britain…”
That’s actually true. The food supply was not in the control of the native Irish population apart from whatever subsistence farmers grew themselves and that wasn’t much and it was mainly potatoes.
It’s a wonder that famines ever happen at all really. Even back then, there was reasonable infrastructure and communications to urgently respond to the crisis. But that just didn’t happen, it was in the interest of the British government to have a weakened Ireland with a smaller population.
It was a catastrophic failure by the British government to protect what it considered to be it’s own citizens. Shameful.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Hole master, I don’t know much Irish history but the poor were bloody poor and hungry in England too…. the ruling classes were not just bastards to the Irish, they were bastards to anyone they bumped into including the English.
Aug. 28th to 30th, 1826: Down the valley of the Avon in Wiltshire. In taking my leave of this beautiful vale, I have to express my deep shame, as an Englishman, at beholding the general extreme poverty of those who cause this vale to produce such quantities of food and raiment. This is, I verily believe it, the worst used labouring people upon the face of the earth . Dogs and hogs and horses are treated with more civility; and as to food and lodging, how gladly would the labourers change with them! This state of things never can continue many years! By some means or other there must be an end to it; and my firm belief is that that end will be dreadful. In the meanwhile I see, and I see it with pleasure, that the common people know that they are ill used; and that they cordially, most cordially, hate those who ill-treat them
.*William Cobbett, Rural Rides
English workers were being starved in times of plenty… and they were the workers producing the plenty…..
Just how badly do you think they would have been treated in hard times for fuck’s sake ?
June 15th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Quite right Haddock.
Despite the propaganda there was a big relief operation mounted. By todays standards woefully inadequate, but this was after all in the 19th century. Of course communication was difficult as was distribution.
It’s an easy target for brit bashing – but the Churches didn’t do a lot either – and the Irish people didn’t do a lot either – those that were not profiteering.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:03 am
Just as when in the Netherlands, the Irish really not against the content of the new treaty. They hardly know what’s in it, and the arguments have no concerns.
There is a negative vote now created the economic impetus of Europe has disappeared; incidentally after many years Ireland has benefited economically strong.
This proves again that an issue with a significant public interest is inappropriate for a referendum on it. In practice shows that many decide not rational, but be guided by all sorts of sentiments. In the letter would now taken a few million people without a good reason to block progress for 500 million Europeans.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:55 am
when I heard the results I got a mental picture of that little britain sketch were yer wan in the dole office says ‘The computer says No’
June 16th, 2008 at 8:42 am
“The Referendum was about the Treaty, not a popularity contest for those standing for or against it.”
Actually what we were asked to vote on was to ammend our constitution so that we could ratify the treaty. We didn’t need to know what was in the treaty, well I didn’t anyway, I just wanted to know how our constitution was going to change and no-one bothered to tell me. Was the treaty going to supercede it? What exactly were we giving up?
Seeing as not one bit of information was given out about our constitution and people got tied up in the whole treaty malarky, I voted ‘No’.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:22 am
What is really worrying is that the shinners have now made proposals of what they want to see in Lisbon 2. So they have taken the no vote as an endorsement of their policies the fuckers…
June 16th, 2008 at 10:59 am
“he ruling classes were not just bastards to the Irish, they were bastards to anyone they bumped into including the English.”
Very true. I always wondering how so few came into possession of so much land in Britain? In Ireland it was buy pure rape and pillage and theft. Also, people didn’t ‘own’ land, they shared it and traded what they produced. The idea of owning land was forced upon them by violence and rules which they had no say in.
Noble classes my fucking hole, their very existence was wrong because it required that others suffer to support them.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Also, people didn’t ‘own’ land, they shared it and traded what they produced. The idea of owning land was forced upon them by violence and rules which they had no say in.
Ah right, so pre-brit Ireland was a socialist utopia ? My arse, it was a feudal shithole with slavery and constant warfare.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Bring back the Behon laws..
June 16th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Bring back the Behon laws..
Dibs Gráinne Seoige as my slave please !
June 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
“My arse, it was a feudal shithole with slavery and constant warfare.”
That’s some arse you have maggot!
June 16th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
This crazy notion that we got “billions from the EU” as if they got nothing for it. Irish fishery rights – including a huge block of the North Atlantic were – opened up to other nations’ fishing fleets. In effect they were bought. And the ruse of re-registering boats as Irish that landed their catches in continental ports was never properly policed by the EU.
The EU Treaty is the key to creating an unaccountable self-perpetuating autocracy based in Brussels.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Ireland received higher fishing quotas in 1976 , while other countries had to reduce their catch.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:02 am
I’ll say it again in case the Europhiles missed it last time….. the EU has no money of its own…. it is money taxed from people living in Europe. These people have no say in how much is taken or how it is spent
June 17th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Yep, and most of the money went to Ireland. In periods there was recessions in european countries – the irish received and received.
Now the celtic tiger became a net payer and it wants out.
June 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Mousse, you make it sound like Ireland was riding the EU gravy train while other European countries were in recession supporting us. Did you ever actually set foot in Ireland at any time between 1973-1993?
It was a damn sight poorer than Belgium I’ll tell you that much
June 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
not as fucking boring though
June 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
has it not occurred to us that perhaps a no vote was what they wanted, giving them reson to challenge or even exclude smaller countries that only appear to soak up funds and have little to add with regard to political power in Europe. They have used this to discredit Ireland from voiceing our opinions on further, maybe even more dangerous decisions.