well y’see she’s insane. she should be in an asylum at the least.
i think they let her off cos she was trying to rehabilitate herself? the training course bit.
in my opinion that just makes it sound like she cant be rehabilitated.
Yeah, I wondered. Then I got to some of the background and I had to recheck the age because I’m aware of very similar family circumstances. It can’t all be pinned on the kid, and she is a kid. It would be far better in the long run, both for society and for her, if she is helped… if she can be helped.
6, of course not, but if she’s showing some bloody sign of staying on the straight and narrow fucking her into a jail’s not going to help any.
I don’t know, she’s still young and her mother’s nuts and has abandoned her. I’d give her one more chance before I’d write her off completely.
She’s 17 Twenty, we’ve all done stupid things at 17. I”m not making excuses for her, but if there’s even a sliver of a chance she might become a constructive member of the community she ought to be given it.
She’s on probation for 1 year. Any bets on her lasting it out?
Of course they don’t name her coz she’17. When you’re a normal 16-year old you lose the right to child’s bus fares, you don’t qualify for child benefit, the rules regarding restriction on employment hours no longer apply, you become eligible to pay full PRSI, but if you attack a man with a broken cue, bite a guard or stab a Polish guy in the neck with a screwdriver, you’re regarded like a little baby & are allowed remain anonymous.
Fuck it, name her, name her mad mother, name the guy who fathered her, wherever he is now, and name the bloody social worker who asked for leniency because she’s “started a training course”. In what? Munitions?
Sounds like a tragic story all round to me. She’s still a child. Being chucked out by her mother sounds like a hell of a blow for any kid to absorb. I’m not excusing her actions but this is clearly one fucked up girl. God knows what her adult role models have been like. I’d say she needs active help rather than a prison sentence. Where the hell were social services when she was thrown out of her home?
jesus fucking christ. What is this site becoming? Are you wringing your hands Major? Did she set fire to a garda station, or did she set fire to a fucking notice board? Her Mother has mental problems and there is no mention of a father. This girl is behaving like a person who is screaming out for help. If she was really bad, she would have killed somebody, or even seriously injured somebody. Parents have to be called to account, or the children put into care. she needs help, and not just sent off to the womens joy where she can learn from the scissor sisters how to properly cut up a corpse!!!
If we want to live in a democracy, I think, by extension, it’s not just parents who have to be called into account, especially if the parents are uneducated, druggy abuse cases like their children.
‘Kill ‘em all’ suggests everyone has the same choices and privileges. It doesn’t work like that.
The other problem with kill ‘em all is who does the killing – one day they might just decide we don’t deserve to live either.
If it was Twenty I’d be in trouble for voting Green and buying organic.
If you institutionalise someone like that you will only aggravate the problem, she will turn out ten times worse. The trouble here is that I don’t know if there is a support structure in place that can help this girl, or whether she wll continue her downward spiral.
Just know people who were 17 and pretty wild and did some crazy stuff, but with a little guidance and without any incarceration they have turned out to be fine adults, with no criminal records.
Do you mean maybe she never learned to start with? I just dont think this girl sounds evil. i really think she needs help. I cant see anything in the article that any 17 year old without support wouldnt be doing. Defiance is the definition of being 17. You are forming your own independence. Most of us had good parents who were there to tell us when we were veering off the track…
I do mean that, SAm Crea. I completely agree about incarceration being pointless except to turn her into an uber criminal.
It’s just I know that if I brought her into my home and tried to be nice to her, she’d most likely end up setting fire to my curtains, robbing me and running away. She clearly has no boundaries, is well messed up, and needs real help – there are so many of these stories, I doubt there’s anyone in the social work system qualified.
You can see why people feel helpless.
I have to admit, I’ve often thought boot camp is a good idea for our asbo contenders, the ones everyone’s despaired of. I don’t think they should be demeaned or made to feel worthless or abused at all, quite the opposite – but yeah, something to wipe the slate clean, reprogramme the straight to violence, lack of control aspect of their responses.
If they can rehabilitate child soldiers, surely they can help our messed up kids like this?
642 hours of hard labour in the Wavin factory in Balbriggan sans Tea breaks.
Failing that she should be impregnated with or without her consent and sentenced to 18 years of constant work. She simply wouldn’t have the time to commit such savage acts and she’d probably get on better with her mates seen as she’d then have something in common. .
Oddly enough people have been chucked in the slammer for not paying the tv licence. She starts smacking up gardai and setting their club on fire and get’s a smack on the wrists. Remind me to quote this article if ever i find myself in the dock. . .
I had that “oh shit I’m old” feeling yesterday when we were walking the dogs. A few blocks over the po-po were at a house. A girl about 18 on the front lawn in cuffs. She was distinctly cracked out. She was screaming “Mommy! Daddy!” And all I thought was: her poor fucking parents. She probably robbed them blind and they’re finally throwing her out.
“The girl had left school at the age of 14 but in recent months had been placed into a care home and had commenced a training course. ”
That seems fair enough, provided she is monitored properly this seems a perfectly reasonable solution. Perhaps they should have added that failing to uphold the law and continue with her training would result in a prison time. Any idiot who thinks a 17 year old who had only behaved like this over a six-month period should go to jail should have their right to vote revoked. The “lock them up” mantra is the rationale of the uneducated spastics that besiege Dublin at the moment. Think about it, neither our prison serve nor child correctional facilities offer decent rehabilitation programs so she would only come out a million times worse, creating more havoc wherever she goes. Why are people not demanding her mother be locked up? After all she, an adult is the root of the problem. Why did social services not investigate this case? So who the fuck are we to condemn a 17 year old child when clearly the reason she finds herself in this predicament is because the state failed to care for her properly in the first place.
As one of the uneducated spastics who thinks she should go to jail I’d like to point out the words assault, criminal damage & possessing a weapon from the report. This is not a girl kicking against society by getting drunk & maybe getting a tattoo, this is a seriously dangerous person.
It’s very easy to think “what if it’s my child”. Just as long as you also think “what if it’s my child that she stabs with a broken bottle one night.”
To think that we can protect our children by locking away all the dangerous or damaged children who might threaten them is understandable but I don’t think it’s realistic. Nor will it ever make any inroads into solving the problem. You’ve got to make some attempt to stop the cycle somewhere.
Judge Aeneus McCarthy warned her: “you are at the last chance saloon”. Not the best choice of words considering her drink problem.
I think she just needs a big hug. Sending someone to prison that young is stupid. it will just give her an education in crime. Shed come out even more loonified and dangerous.
No but, when “she was thrown on the streets by her mentally ill mother” where was social services, a state body, employed to look after children? What the fuck kind of retards put a 17 year old girl in a hostel, having dealt with a mentally ill mother and expect her to be ok?? I am all for accountability, people taking responsibility for their own a actions and indeed that of their children but, come on now lads any well balanced intelligent person would appreciate that what that child went through was extremely unjust and failing on the states part.
Ahh Twenty you fucker, stop it will you. I mean she stole a ready-made meal for 4 shitty euro. It was hardly to sell on she was obviously hungry. I mean a more pragmatic or perhaps resourceful 17 year old may have gone on the game or sold drugs or stole lots of expensive stuff and flogged it, but, she didn’t I think there is a great deal of innocence or naivety there. A person like that does not deserve to go to jail, she deserve proper rehabilitation and a proper education.
At 17 she’s old enough to know right from wrong. Tell you what Nonny – would you volunteer to have her live in your house and look after her? Not likely.
Part of the problem is that we all know that sending her to jail will probably make her worse, but we don’t think she should get away scot-free (remember, she’s been put on probation, so she’s had no punishment at all), and if you follow “jail makes them better criminals” argument to its logical conclusion then only the very worst criminal in the country would go to jail, since eveyone not as bad as him (or her) would have something they could learn form him/her in there.
How would that work, Twenty? Would you order it and sit there waiting, then rush down the street with it steaming on the plate, Frenchy waiters with pencil moustaches and cloths on their arms running after you?
The judge should have locked her up for a week or two just to put the shits up her. I know two lads who were sent to the ‘joy for a couple of weeks (and for far less serious offences) to scare them straight and I’ll tell you now, it worked a fucking treat. Neither of them has got into any (serious) bother since.
Has she stopped offending ?
No. If anything her behaviour is worsening.
So what has been done so far has failed Jo.
If she knows nothing unpleasant is going to happen to her, it’s hardly going to make her behave herself, is it ?
Of course when she does something really dreadful like kicking a tramp to death she can be sent to jail for a long time – but it will a bit late by then.
I was watching one of those prison documentaries on the crime channel last night, one guy was doing 100 years and a day for his second conviction of armed robbery. He’d already 20 years done and he himself was convinced he’d die there. 1 visit per week, 1 hour a day outside the cell, handcuffed and chained anywhere outside his cell(which is about the size of a hotpress)He’ll never re-offend cos he’ll never get fkn out. As the warden said – We’re in charge of this prison, not them. If only we had a politician we could believe if he said that.
Let me tell you something Mr Maggot darling I would have absolutely no problem taking her. If people showed teenagers a screed of respect there wouldn’t be have the problems there are today. I wouldn’t notice her anyway MY house is also home to my little mofo bro on the weekends (he’s a commuter) and my 18 year old cousin who was in his hay day much worse than that young girl, his principal told me to get him into a trade or something as he wasn’t “able for school” but alas one successful Leaving Cert later, Nonny’s window are immaculate and I think the time my mother and I made him mow every lawn on the street lead him to his current pursuit, a diploma in Horticultural Science, the back yard is fabulous, as a gesture of goodwill I am ignoring the “tomato plants in my kitchen window” Until recently, we also had my three year old niece, her brother and parents. We also have two dogs, two cats, two hens, a spider, angelfish and a partridge in a pear treeeeee. Bring on the girl
Not if she got killed in there. Fair point twenty. But the chances are she wouldnt get killed in there. Chances are she would be taken under the wing of some giant lesbian. Then when they both got out they would run rampant through Dublin. I still say hugs are the solution. if it wasnt for hugs i would probably be wearing an electronic tag or getting arse fucked in some prison cell by now. Oh sure shed get hugs in prison but not the type of hugs im thinking of.
Let me tell you something Mr Maggot darling I would have absolutely no problem taking her.
Tell that to the marines!
Soft treatment is disastrous – eve fred Bloody West had been arrested – but bleeding heart liberal cunts gave him his chance. Ditto Dennis Nilsen in London.
maggot, that reveals an alarmingly shallow view of human psychology.
Is the only reason you don’t do bad things because you might get punished for them?
I never wanted to slap my daughter but in the last stressful year I’ve done it far too many times. The result? She slaps me when she gets angry.
This girl is not doing all this shit because she thinks she can get away with it. I’d say she’s had the shit slapped out of her her whole life. If you were sent to live her life, you’d consider it a punishment. She is what she’s been made, not because no one ever made her face consequences.
We fuck them up and then lock them up. Once a person is damaged we throw away the key? No responsibility. I just see that as an attitude enormously lacking in imagination. We live in a democracy and the failures of our society belong to us all.
I don’t know how to fix her personally, no. But I do believe that it’s possible. I know of one person who is an absolutely excellent, responsible, taxpaying guy in his twenties now, looking after his ailing old father. And when he was in his teens he get into drugs and stole a lot of money freom his dad. And was at one point on the street begging and cutting stuff into his leg. And I know what happened to make all that come about. But he had family who stuck by him and sorted him out.
By your rules, he should have done time in jail, and deserved no understanding whatsoever. And he wouldn’t be the guy he is today if that had happened.
I’m not saying being nice to every murderous scumbag is going to make the country a better place. I’m saying these are people, they’re a product of their environment. You can be in favour of a final solution, or you can think outside the box a little more. If this girl had grown up in your house, would she be this sort of person? And if she was your sister, would you be calling for blood or would you be looking for ways to help her?
I would never say it was soft treatment. It should be moderate treatment, consistent moderate treatment. In fairness now I should point out that I have no kids of my own and I am only 26 so perhaps he would have turned around anyway. I honestly don’t think so. I mean the only thing that stopped him going down the stairs my mother literally begging, hands and knees stuff. I won’t tell you what he’d done but, it was worse than that girl. I really think you have to look at the parents or their carers before you condemn a kid. When he was 15 more times than I could count I had to drop whatever I was doing drive around looking for him and literally drag him home, not once did I see any of the other lads parents out looking for them. I’m not trying to be a martyr. I adore him, it would kill me if anything happened him so part of my motive was probably selfishness. I just cannot understand what the big drama about teenagers is. It is a parents job to care for their children and when they fail it is up to the state. On this occasion the state failed, it is there fault, they should have to rehabilitate her.
i suppose if/when she fucks up next time, she’s gonna well and truly have the book thrown at her… so a final chance is okay, but how come they saved up 20 charges all for one court case? they hardly all happened one after another on the one night.
have to have a dog licence, television licence, driving licence, but not a child licence. conscription would be a good idea but the thought of platoons of very fit scumbags with knowledge of tactics and weapons training is a bit scary.
If it was a male, there would be no major divergence of opinion. Most would agree that he is a incorrigible scummer and should be banged up for the sake of society. But when it’s a girl scummer, hugs are the answer. I am not necessarily in favour of just banging people up all over the gaff but sauce for the goose and all that. Of course, if women are to be treated better in the courts, surely they can also accept wage disparity… ? As a counterbalance, no free lunch, etc..
Hmm. Mass sterilisation. It’s been done… it’s a pretty foul idea, though, relegating people to the status of animals on a whim. Who’s to decide – and if you really believe in it, would you accept it for yourself?
Superior people once took away native American and Australian children to give them a better life. That didn’t work so well.
Why are these ideas so much more palatable and practical than a concerted programme of education and nutrition and pedagogy? How is that more out there than unconsensual mass sterilisation?
JTM -if this 17 year old person was a male would that male now be in the clink? Please answer just yes or no…..I just think different standards are being adopted because this person is a female
It’d be one thing if being incarcerated did anything to make anyone any better. If there was more than anecdotal proof of that I’d accept it.
Fine, a lot of people believe in punishment rather than rehabilitation. I don’t, particularly. Certaily there are people who’ve foregone their rights to live among the rest of us, and shoud be locked up for our own safety.
I just think it’s putting your head in the sand and avoiding responsibilty completely to wash your hands of anyone who creates a problem, without looking at the causes of that problem. It’s like soem Stepford utopia.
Jesus Wept – She got drunk, bit a piglet, lit a match in a pig sty did €80 worth of damage and people want to lock her up, throw away the key, sterilise her and do even worse. These are the attitudes that endorsed the sending of kids who played truant to industrial schools so they could be raped and worse by the moral guardians of the time – the catholic church. Shame.
What crap about society as a whole being responsible for these people. What about personal responsibility?Disadvantaged bollix, not everyone who grew up in so called disadvantaged areas became criminals. Some ppl are just C*nts, plain and simple.The same c*nt that parks in front of your driveway – ah it’s only for a minute bud, the same C*nt who has his mobile phone in one hand and a smoke in the other while driving. Anyway prison is too good for these c*nts, her own tv, drugs on tap, learn to play guitar and write a few poems -great deterrant not to burn the Garda station down again.
I worked in the “social care” field when I first came to Ireland 5 years ago and from what I can gather, the only way to go to jail in this country is to refuse to allow the government to force you to sell your land to them so they can turn it over to a multinational corporation that wants to run a gas pipeline through your property.
And possibly writing extremely long sentences, but I digress.
Other than that – it’s a fucking free for all. Which in my opinion is the reason that kids like the girl you refer to, are all running around doing more and more outrageous things. “SOMEBODY STOP ME” is what they’re really saying. But we won’t stop them, oh no – ‘ah bless’, and the ‘poor unfortunate’ brigade will keep sending them right back out until they become the Scissor Sisters that we’re all so afraid they’ll learn the ropes from.
Anna, when you are being held down, none too gently by 3 gardai i’m sure you may fight just a little bit. Any form of strugle is considered to be resisting arrest and before you know it you are at the receiving end of “Violent Restraint”. Anyway, the gist of my point is that most of the fascists commenting here want to lock this girl up, rape and sterilise her because of a handful of drunken incidents over a 6 month period. She has no previous convictions and the judge has left it open to incarcerate her if she reoffends – what is so wrong with that.
look i dont no wats rong wit the rest of ye. shes a fuckin lunatic, setting fire to things, assaulting a garda, brandishing a fuckin pool cue in front of a member of the public!! shes off her head. stick her in the ‘joy and be done. in all fairness you’re not gonna rehabilitate an animal like thaat. She cud break your leg and go ” i thought it was funny”. Come on… get rid and get rid now
Dessigee; why were the gardai restraining her in the first place? Probably not because she was keeping the peace and being of good behaviour. Trust me when I tell you the gardai go out of their way to never lay hands on a minor.
I cant’ comment on this particular case but I can tell you that the court system goes out of its way to keep girls and boys out of jail. With the alternative measures and interventions now in place, young people are often the proud owners of 200+ offences/charges before they ever see the inside of a courtroom. There is a lot wrong with that, in my opinion.
she’s female
well y’see she’s insane. she should be in an asylum at the least.
i think they let her off cos she was trying to rehabilitate herself? the training course bit.
in my opinion that just makes it sound like she cant be rehabilitated.
She’s not Nigerian
You’ll notice her mother suffers from depression? Possibly because she lives in the same house as a complete scumbucket.
There’s still some hope for her. Might not be much but there’s some.
number 5.
and getting away with stuff like that is gonna increase the hope?
Shes probably nailerz girlfriend
..if there is any chance she can be rehabilitated, then, as much as it’s a pain in the bollix, we (society) owe her that last chance.
She fucks up again, goodbye last chance saloon, hello mountjoy.
The judges name was Anus.
She fell in with a “bad crowd”, she is the “bad crowd”.
But she committed many crimes including assualting a Garda and setting fire to a Garda station.
Fuck her last chance.
I mean, we wouldn’t fucking get it.
Yeah, I wondered. Then I got to some of the background and I had to recheck the age because I’m aware of very similar family circumstances. It can’t all be pinned on the kid, and she is a kid. It would be far better in the long run, both for society and for her, if she is helped… if she can be helped.
not a chance that we;d get away with it alright.
and i think the “bad crowd” was her family?
6, of course not, but if she’s showing some bloody sign of staying on the straight and narrow fucking her into a jail’s not going to help any.
I don’t know, she’s still young and her mother’s nuts and has abandoned her. I’d give her one more chance before I’d write her off completely.
Well, I hope she gets some decent help. Kid sounds fucked.
My first thought was a wonderful Bill Hicks line… “You’re on the street? Really? Wasn’t your fucking personality that put you there, was it?”
She’s 17 Twenty, we’ve all done stupid things at 17. I”m not making excuses for her, but if there’s even a sliver of a chance she might become a constructive member of the community she ought to be given it.
She’s on probation for 1 year. Any bets on her lasting it out?
Of course they don’t name her coz she’17. When you’re a normal 16-year old you lose the right to child’s bus fares, you don’t qualify for child benefit, the rules regarding restriction on employment hours no longer apply, you become eligible to pay full PRSI, but if you attack a man with a broken cue, bite a guard or stab a Polish guy in the neck with a screwdriver, you’re regarded like a little baby & are allowed remain anonymous.
Fuck it, name her, name her mad mother, name the guy who fathered her, wherever he is now, and name the bloody social worker who asked for leniency because she’s “started a training course”. In what? Munitions?
And if she is Naillerz girlfriend, as Mutant Pig suggests, no wonder he’s scared of women…
Put her in a fucking treadmill and make her power the local cop shop.
gas chamber I’m afraid is the only way out of this one
twenty, you said “fuck her last chance, we wouldn’t get it”
Now does that mean you think the fact that we would not get that chance unfair?
If it does, then logically you should support anyone getting a last chance.
Or it could mean, none of us deserve a chance.
All of which probably means, I should get back to work
Strap explosives around her waist and send her back to the police station.
Sounds like a tragic story all round to me. She’s still a child. Being chucked out by her mother sounds like a hell of a blow for any kid to absorb. I’m not excusing her actions but this is clearly one fucked up girl. God knows what her adult role models have been like. I’d say she needs active help rather than a prison sentence. Where the hell were social services when she was thrown out of her home?
Maybe I’m just in one of those ‘everyone should be killed’ moods.
jesus fucking christ. What is this site becoming? Are you wringing your hands Major? Did she set fire to a garda station, or did she set fire to a fucking notice board? Her Mother has mental problems and there is no mention of a father. This girl is behaving like a person who is screaming out for help. If she was really bad, she would have killed somebody, or even seriously injured somebody. Parents have to be called to account, or the children put into care. she needs help, and not just sent off to the womens joy where she can learn from the scissor sisters how to properly cut up a corpse!!!
if it was a bloke… ?
If we want to live in a democracy, I think, by extension, it’s not just parents who have to be called into account, especially if the parents are uneducated, druggy abuse cases like their children.
‘Kill ‘em all’ suggests everyone has the same choices and privileges. It doesn’t work like that.
The other problem with kill ‘em all is who does the killing – one day they might just decide we don’t deserve to live either.
If it was Twenty I’d be in trouble for voting Green and buying organic.
Fucked if I know, mate. I’m English and our “legal” system seems to be as big a fucking shambles as yours.
If you institutionalise someone like that you will only aggravate the problem, she will turn out ten times worse. The trouble here is that I don’t know if there is a support structure in place that can help this girl, or whether she wll continue her downward spiral.
Just know people who were 17 and pretty wild and did some crazy stuff, but with a little guidance and without any incarceration they have turned out to be fine adults, with no criminal records.
I don’t know if it’s the same for mad scumbags though, is it?
She doesn’t just sound wild and crazy. It sounds like she needs to be taught how to be a person all over again.
she should join the army.
joethemamma
Do you mean maybe she never learned to start with? I just dont think this girl sounds evil. i really think she needs help. I cant see anything in the article that any 17 year old without support wouldnt be doing. Defiance is the definition of being 17. You are forming your own independence. Most of us had good parents who were there to tell us when we were veering off the track…
I saw a video on what happens when you join the royal marines.
They literally do start from scratch.
They instruct you on how to wash your ass, how to eat, how to make your bed.
It sounds like thats what she needs.
Two of the most irritatingly PC words in the English language: broken home.
Hang each and every one of them. Whoever they are.
All of them.
And all of us, too. Whoever we are.
Just to be on the safe side.
I do mean that, SAm Crea. I completely agree about incarceration being pointless except to turn her into an uber criminal.
It’s just I know that if I brought her into my home and tried to be nice to her, she’d most likely end up setting fire to my curtains, robbing me and running away. She clearly has no boundaries, is well messed up, and needs real help – there are so many of these stories, I doubt there’s anyone in the social work system qualified.
You can see why people feel helpless.
I have to admit, I’ve often thought boot camp is a good idea for our asbo contenders, the ones everyone’s despaired of. I don’t think they should be demeaned or made to feel worthless or abused at all, quite the opposite – but yeah, something to wipe the slate clean, reprogramme the straight to violence, lack of control aspect of their responses.
If they can rehabilitate child soldiers, surely they can help our messed up kids like this?
she is absolute scum
642 hours of hard labour in the Wavin factory in Balbriggan sans Tea breaks.
Failing that she should be impregnated with or without her consent and sentenced to 18 years of constant work. She simply wouldn’t have the time to commit such savage acts and she’d probably get on better with her mates seen as she’d then have something in common. .
Oddly enough people have been chucked in the slammer for not paying the tv licence. She starts smacking up gardai and setting their club on fire and get’s a smack on the wrists. Remind me to quote this article if ever i find myself in the dock. . .
*stage left*
Did you ever use the wrong phrase or term in a comment or post, and afterwards realize you used the wrong word, and then feel like a bit of a tool…
Dr Phil put in a good word on her behalf.
I had that “oh shit I’m old” feeling yesterday when we were walking the dogs. A few blocks over the po-po were at a house. A girl about 18 on the front lawn in cuffs. She was distinctly cracked out. She was screaming “Mommy! Daddy!” And all I thought was: her poor fucking parents. She probably robbed them blind and they’re finally throwing her out.
That’s a nightmare. What do you do?
She’s obviously from limerick yeah?
Anyone?
Did you ever use the wrong phrase or term in a comment or post, and afterwards realize you used the wrong word, and then feel like a bit of a tool…
Welcome to my world…..
And politicians wonder why the public have lost faith in the system.
Off Topic – did you see the 101 year old man did the Marathon in 5 Hours and had a beer and a cigarette at the finishing line ?
Apparently he’s not 101 though.
But still, whatever age he is that’s good running.
Perhaps he was number 101.
What’s going on here, eh?
It was 101 women doing it with a Marathon bar for 5 hours. I have the fuckin’ DVD in me hand as I type!
Just the one marathon bar?
And how old would that Marathon bar be, seeing as they’ve been Snickers for, what, twenty years?
“The girl had left school at the age of 14 but in recent months had been placed into a care home and had commenced a training course. ”
That seems fair enough, provided she is monitored properly this seems a perfectly reasonable solution. Perhaps they should have added that failing to uphold the law and continue with her training would result in a prison time. Any idiot who thinks a 17 year old who had only behaved like this over a six-month period should go to jail should have their right to vote revoked. The “lock them up” mantra is the rationale of the uneducated spastics that besiege Dublin at the moment. Think about it, neither our prison serve nor child correctional facilities offer decent rehabilitation programs so she would only come out a million times worse, creating more havoc wherever she goes. Why are people not demanding her mother be locked up? After all she, an adult is the root of the problem. Why did social services not investigate this case? So who the fuck are we to condemn a 17 year old child when clearly the reason she finds herself in this predicament is because the state failed to care for her properly in the first place.
The state are her parents?
As one of the uneducated spastics who thinks she should go to jail I’d like to point out the words assault, criminal damage & possessing a weapon from the report. This is not a girl kicking against society by getting drunk & maybe getting a tattoo, this is a seriously dangerous person.
It’s very easy to think “what if it’s my child”. Just as long as you also think “what if it’s my child that she stabs with a broken bottle one night.”
And by the way Jo & MB, how come we’re back to wanking with chocolate?
I really don’t know. It was him, not me!
To think that we can protect our children by locking away all the dangerous or damaged children who might threaten them is understandable but I don’t think it’s realistic. Nor will it ever make any inroads into solving the problem. You’ve got to make some attempt to stop the cycle somewhere.
Judge Aeneus McCarthy warned her: “you are at the last chance saloon”. Not the best choice of words considering her drink problem.
I think she just needs a big hug. Sending someone to prison that young is stupid. it will just give her an education in crime. Shed come out even more loonified and dangerous.
Not if she got killed in there.
“The state are her parents?”
No but, when “she was thrown on the streets by her mentally ill mother” where was social services, a state body, employed to look after children? What the fuck kind of retards put a 17 year old girl in a hostel, having dealt with a mentally ill mother and expect her to be ok?? I am all for accountability, people taking responsibility for their own a actions and indeed that of their children but, come on now lads any well balanced intelligent person would appreciate that what that child went through was extremely unjust and failing on the states part.
Ahh Twenty you fucker, stop it will you. I mean she stole a ready-made meal for 4 shitty euro. It was hardly to sell on she was obviously hungry. I mean a more pragmatic or perhaps resourceful 17 year old may have gone on the game or sold drugs or stole lots of expensive stuff and flogged it, but, she didn’t I think there is a great deal of innocence or naivety there. A person like that does not deserve to go to jail, she deserve proper rehabilitation and a proper education.
At 17 she’s old enough to know right from wrong. Tell you what Nonny – would you volunteer to have her live in your house and look after her? Not likely.
Bleeding-heart liberals. Cunts the lot of them.
Pure lack of ambition. She should have stolen a €40 main course from Patrick Guilbaud’s.
Part of the problem is that we all know that sending her to jail will probably make her worse, but we don’t think she should get away scot-free (remember, she’s been put on probation, so she’s had no punishment at all), and if you follow “jail makes them better criminals” argument to its logical conclusion then only the very worst criminal in the country would go to jail, since eveyone not as bad as him (or her) would have something they could learn form him/her in there.
That’s such a cop out Tinman. This girl isn’t public enemy number one.
Punishment is not the be all and end all. It has its place, of course, but each crime needs to be viewed independently and motive is a huge issue.
What about that kid who hanged himself in Mountjoy a few years ago, made an example of and sent there for stealing a leather jacket.
That story turns my stomach. But at least we have the satisfaction of knowing he was punished fittingly, right?
How would that work, Twenty? Would you order it and sit there waiting, then rush down the street with it steaming on the plate, Frenchy waiters with pencil moustaches and cloths on their arms running after you?
The judge should have locked her up for a week or two just to put the shits up her. I know two lads who were sent to the ‘joy for a couple of weeks (and for far less serious offences) to scare them straight and I’ll tell you now, it worked a fucking treat. Neither of them has got into any (serious) bother since.
The lenient treatment she has received so far has worked really well, hasn’t it?
Seriously maggot? Do you really think this girl’s problems stem from lenient treatment?
Has she stopped offending ?
No. If anything her behaviour is worsening.
So what has been done so far has failed Jo.
If she knows nothing unpleasant is going to happen to her, it’s hardly going to make her behave herself, is it ?
Of course when she does something really dreadful like kicking a tramp to death she can be sent to jail for a long time – but it will a bit late by then.
A stitch in time.
Was he really not 101?
Fianna Fail member? None of them have been jailed…
I was watching one of those prison documentaries on the crime channel last night, one guy was doing 100 years and a day for his second conviction of armed robbery. He’d already 20 years done and he himself was convinced he’d die there. 1 visit per week, 1 hour a day outside the cell, handcuffed and chained anywhere outside his cell(which is about the size of a hotpress)He’ll never re-offend cos he’ll never get fkn out. As the warden said – We’re in charge of this prison, not them. If only we had a politician we could believe if he said that.
Let me tell you something Mr Maggot darling I would have absolutely no problem taking her. If people showed teenagers a screed of respect there wouldn’t be have the problems there are today. I wouldn’t notice her anyway MY house is also home to my little mofo bro on the weekends (he’s a commuter) and my 18 year old cousin who was in his hay day much worse than that young girl, his principal told me to get him into a trade or something as he wasn’t “able for school” but alas one successful Leaving Cert later, Nonny’s window are immaculate and I think the time my mother and I made him mow every lawn on the street lead him to his current pursuit, a diploma in Horticultural Science, the back yard is fabulous, as a gesture of goodwill I am ignoring the “tomato plants in my kitchen window” Until recently, we also had my three year old niece, her brother and parents. We also have two dogs, two cats, two hens, a spider, angelfish and a partridge in a pear treeeeee. Bring on the girl
Not if she got killed in there. Fair point twenty. But the chances are she wouldnt get killed in there. Chances are she would be taken under the wing of some giant lesbian. Then when they both got out they would run rampant through Dublin. I still say hugs are the solution. if it wasnt for hugs i would probably be wearing an electronic tag or getting arse fucked in some prison cell by now. Oh sure shed get hugs in prison but not the type of hugs im thinking of.
You’re deadly, Nonny!
Let me tell you something Mr Maggot darling I would have absolutely no problem taking her.
Tell that to the marines!
Soft treatment is disastrous – eve fred Bloody West had been arrested – but bleeding heart liberal cunts gave him his chance. Ditto Dennis Nilsen in London.
“There she developed an alcohol problem and had fallen in with a “bad crowd” from which she has now disassociated herself.”
Ron barred her then?
maggot, that reveals an alarmingly shallow view of human psychology.
Is the only reason you don’t do bad things because you might get punished for them?
I never wanted to slap my daughter but in the last stressful year I’ve done it far too many times. The result? She slaps me when she gets angry.
This girl is not doing all this shit because she thinks she can get away with it. I’d say she’s had the shit slapped out of her her whole life. If you were sent to live her life, you’d consider it a punishment. She is what she’s been made, not because no one ever made her face consequences.
I disagree Jo.
But setting aside why she is what she is – what do we do ?
Why should the rest of us have to put up with (and be at risk) from people like her ?
She should be out of circulation.
I’ve read a few articles in here and they are in sorry need of some WRITERS.
We fuck them up and then lock them up. Once a person is damaged we throw away the key? No responsibility. I just see that as an attitude enormously lacking in imagination. We live in a democracy and the failures of our society belong to us all.
I don’t know how to fix her personally, no. But I do believe that it’s possible. I know of one person who is an absolutely excellent, responsible, taxpaying guy in his twenties now, looking after his ailing old father. And when he was in his teens he get into drugs and stole a lot of money freom his dad. And was at one point on the street begging and cutting stuff into his leg. And I know what happened to make all that come about. But he had family who stuck by him and sorted him out.
By your rules, he should have done time in jail, and deserved no understanding whatsoever. And he wouldn’t be the guy he is today if that had happened.
I’m not saying being nice to every murderous scumbag is going to make the country a better place. I’m saying these are people, they’re a product of their environment. You can be in favour of a final solution, or you can think outside the box a little more. If this girl had grown up in your house, would she be this sort of person? And if she was your sister, would you be calling for blood or would you be looking for ways to help her?
I would never say it was soft treatment. It should be moderate treatment, consistent moderate treatment. In fairness now I should point out that I have no kids of my own and I am only 26 so perhaps he would have turned around anyway. I honestly don’t think so. I mean the only thing that stopped him going down the stairs my mother literally begging, hands and knees stuff. I won’t tell you what he’d done but, it was worse than that girl. I really think you have to look at the parents or their carers before you condemn a kid. When he was 15 more times than I could count I had to drop whatever I was doing drive around looking for him and literally drag him home, not once did I see any of the other lads parents out looking for them. I’m not trying to be a martyr. I adore him, it would kill me if anything happened him so part of my motive was probably selfishness. I just cannot understand what the big drama about teenagers is. It is a parents job to care for their children and when they fail it is up to the state. On this occasion the state failed, it is there fault, they should have to rehabilitate her.
i suppose if/when she fucks up next time, she’s gonna well and truly have the book thrown at her… so a final chance is okay, but how come they saved up 20 charges all for one court case? they hardly all happened one after another on the one night.
96 comments about someone setting fire to a Garda station and not one mention of Smokey Bacon.
Shame on the fucking lot of you.
sorry. 84 comments.
Shame on me.
Fair point but, picking on a 17 year old girl with mental problems??
Raise the bar, 20!!!!
I wasn’t picking on anyone. Just asking a question. To which it appears there’s no answer.
On one hand some people say give her a chance, on the other people say fuck her in jail.
I think the only solution now is that she should be made fight herself to the death.
have to have a dog licence, television licence, driving licence, but not a child licence. conscription would be a good idea but the thought of platoons of very fit scumbags with knowledge of tactics and weapons training is a bit scary.
Darwinism will take care of her. Fear not.
You filthy back peddler Major! Why must it always end with someone fighting someone to the death with you?
Haha. It’s the only way they’ll learn.
Why should she go to jail? It’s not like she didnt pay her bin charges or anything serious like that…
I think that in these cases she should be operated on so that she cant have children. People like that should never have offspring.
Maybe neutering might calm them then fuck down like it does to some other animals.
Can I just ask the following question -If it was a male would that male now be in the clink. Methinks they would be…..
If it was a male, there would be no major divergence of opinion. Most would agree that he is a incorrigible scummer and should be banged up for the sake of society. But when it’s a girl scummer, hugs are the answer. I am not necessarily in favour of just banging people up all over the gaff but sauce for the goose and all that. Of course, if women are to be treated better in the courts, surely they can also accept wage disparity… ? As a counterbalance, no free lunch, etc..
Would it be better for her to to end up like the Rossiter kid? she’s only a kid for fucks sake and deserves a chance
On April 14th, 2008 at 4:06 pm Twenty Major said:
But she committed many crimes including assualting a Garda and setting fire to a Garda station.
Fuck her last chance.
anybody who does that increases their earning potential in my book
Should we let all 17 year olds off the hook for everything but, say, murder?
They’re only kids.
Hmm. Mass sterilisation. It’s been done… it’s a pretty foul idea, though, relegating people to the status of animals on a whim. Who’s to decide – and if you really believe in it, would you accept it for yourself?
Superior people once took away native American and Australian children to give them a better life. That didn’t work so well.
Why are these ideas so much more palatable and practical than a concerted programme of education and nutrition and pedagogy? How is that more out there than unconsensual mass sterilisation?
JTM -if this 17 year old person was a male would that male now be in the clink? Please answer just yes or no…..I just think different standards are being adopted because this person is a female
That’s it. We would not be discussing this were it a male
But should we not be?
I think that men and women being treated differently is a separate issue.
I don’t think 17 year old boys should be thrown in jail either.
It’d be one thing if being incarcerated did anything to make anyone any better. If there was more than anecdotal proof of that I’d accept it.
Fine, a lot of people believe in punishment rather than rehabilitation. I don’t, particularly. Certaily there are people who’ve foregone their rights to live among the rest of us, and shoud be locked up for our own safety.
I just think it’s putting your head in the sand and avoiding responsibilty completely to wash your hands of anyone who creates a problem, without looking at the causes of that problem. It’s like soem Stepford utopia.
Jesus Wept – She got drunk, bit a piglet, lit a match in a pig sty did €80 worth of damage and people want to lock her up, throw away the key, sterilise her and do even worse. These are the attitudes that endorsed the sending of kids who played truant to industrial schools so they could be raped and worse by the moral guardians of the time – the catholic church. Shame.
What crap about society as a whole being responsible for these people. What about personal responsibility?Disadvantaged bollix, not everyone who grew up in so called disadvantaged areas became criminals. Some ppl are just C*nts, plain and simple.The same c*nt that parks in front of your driveway – ah it’s only for a minute bud, the same C*nt who has his mobile phone in one hand and a smoke in the other while driving. Anyway prison is too good for these c*nts, her own tv, drugs on tap, learn to play guitar and write a few poems -great deterrant not to burn the Garda station down again.
I worked in the “social care” field when I first came to Ireland 5 years ago and from what I can gather, the only way to go to jail in this country is to refuse to allow the government to force you to sell your land to them so they can turn it over to a multinational corporation that wants to run a gas pipeline through your property.
And possibly writing extremely long sentences, but I digress.
Other than that – it’s a fucking free for all. Which in my opinion is the reason that kids like the girl you refer to, are all running around doing more and more outrageous things. “SOMEBODY STOP ME” is what they’re really saying. But we won’t stop them, oh no – ‘ah bless’, and the ‘poor unfortunate’ brigade will keep sending them right back out until they become the Scissor Sisters that we’re all so afraid they’ll learn the ropes from.
Oh yeah, and Dessigee – the next time you are on the receiving end of a human bite, look me up and we’ll talk.
Anna, when you are being held down, none too gently by 3 gardai i’m sure you may fight just a little bit. Any form of strugle is considered to be resisting arrest and before you know it you are at the receiving end of “Violent Restraint”. Anyway, the gist of my point is that most of the fascists commenting here want to lock this girl up, rape and sterilise her because of a handful of drunken incidents over a 6 month period. She has no previous convictions and the judge has left it open to incarcerate her if she reoffends – what is so wrong with that.
look i dont no wats rong wit the rest of ye. shes a fuckin lunatic, setting fire to things, assaulting a garda, brandishing a fuckin pool cue in front of a member of the public!! shes off her head. stick her in the ‘joy and be done. in all fairness you’re not gonna rehabilitate an animal like thaat. She cud break your leg and go ” i thought it was funny”. Come on… get rid and get rid now
Tommy “Was she from Limerick?”
You sir are a handicap,dishing out that old worn out cliche stereotype..
Twenty:Definitely the Fight herself to the Death option
Bring in Sharia Courts – they seem to cater for the swift forms of justice required here
Dessigee; why were the gardai restraining her in the first place? Probably not because she was keeping the peace and being of good behaviour. Trust me when I tell you the gardai go out of their way to never lay hands on a minor.
I cant’ comment on this particular case but I can tell you that the court system goes out of its way to keep girls and boys out of jail. With the alternative measures and interventions now in place, young people are often the proud owners of 200+ offences/charges before they ever see the inside of a courtroom. There is a lot wrong with that, in my opinion.
Do I have all the answers? No, sadly I don’t.
Fair play to the lass. Buy her a pint, say I.